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Old Apr 24, 2014, 02:52 AM
Crash Test Dummy
Brunei, Brunei-Muara, Masin
Joined Nov 2013
130 Posts
You are using an Oxy 1.0 sq M kite?

I have a couple of kites I thought might be useful but wasn't sure about the stalling. They need a decent breeze to keep the vents open, but I thought I could use something flexible in the mouth just in case it did stall, so the kite didn't close up on itself.

As to weight, I guess it's just going to be SIAS (suck it and see ) - I have a GoPro3-like camera which is a bit lighter than the GoPro (AEE SD51) - looking at the motor, ESC, RX, servo, battery and chassis, what is your AUW on the SkySurfer?
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 02:55 AM
Crash Test Dummy
Brunei, Brunei-Muara, Masin
Joined Nov 2013
130 Posts
Oh, I googled - an Opale Oxy 1.0.

I did note that the foils that Oxy make have a much shallower chord than my sport kites... I suspect mine might be too slow for a paramotor.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 05:50 AM
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Joined Jan 2013
145 Posts
Hacker !!!

These wings are more fluid! The most successful single skin trade


Hacker Moosberg Gleitschirm Cup Impressionen Teil 2 (7 min 7 sec)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...&v=_hk4Z5o4_gU
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 05:57 AM
Crash Test Dummy
Brunei, Brunei-Muara, Masin
Joined Nov 2013
130 Posts
At 880 Euro for an RTF, they should be!

I paid less than that for a full-sized parafoil wing.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 07:09 AM
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Ludovic 56's Avatar
Joined Jan 2013
145 Posts
The next wings of shops could look like this ...

it's home made

Open Révolution 1m² Single skin new concept ! (4 min 10 sec)


with more weight and wind

Open Révolution 1m² 20/25 km/h de vent 1.9 kgs ;) (1 min 6 sec)
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 10:35 PM
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Joined Feb 2007
192 Posts
immike

My Sky Surfer when ready for 7-8kts is just under 500 grams. The OXYs are kinda slow so that is still the advantage of a Sky Surfer Paramotor MOD. Adjustable AOA and with a bit more weight can penetrate some breeze.

I'd like to see how Ludos new design compares to OXY or Hacker single skin.

Maybe we should tote a GPS logger and see what speeds these are capable of.

I also want to limit the weight because there is a 2lb limit for Park Flyer class.
I want a fast stable quiet 2lb RC Paramotor able to tote a GoPRO (with Protective Case).

After all I said above I am impressed with the Oxy it's is flying art just looks great cruising by.

Jack Z



Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
Oh, I googled - an Opale Oxy 1.0.

I did note that the foils that Oxy make have a much shallower chord than my sport kites... I suspect mine might be too slow for a paramotor.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 11:08 PM
Crash Test Dummy
Brunei, Brunei-Muara, Masin
Joined Nov 2013
130 Posts
Some technical Q's:

How do you adjust AOA?

Where is your COG - in a straight line down from your flying lines? Is it just a matter of making sure the 'chariot' (still haven't worked out what it is called) hangs level from the flying lines?

Are all your wings 'open cell' with a netting front panel for inflation? I haven't seen a good pic of the front of the wings.

What kg are your servos? I was thinking of a single servo controlling a bar, like a powerkite flying bar. - so a central line taking the weight of the braking lines and the flying lines left to do what they are meant to do. In theory this would allow an adjustment to the AOA, within limits.



With the right servo and careful placement of servo rod onto the bar, I can have an infinitely adjustable ratio for tuning.



Looking at my kites, the Flexifoil is lighter and 'flatter' than the Ozone, but the Ozone is faster and more accurate to fly as a kite. It should be easy enough to swap them around and try both. I think I have a few more that may work - 2-line, rather than 4-line, but I would have to dig them up.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 11:26 PM
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Joined Feb 2007
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The Sky Surfer is a modified toy dual layer wind with vents up front also includes a flexible plastic spar near the open front vents to keep the wing spread. The Sky Surfer has AOA adjustment using small clips to shorten or lengthen the rear lines, lowering or raising the attachment point, providing clips and adjustment holes.

The Oxy doesn't include AOA adjustments.

Paralight Aviation, Flypg Flex and Opale Spiral 1.2R all have dual layers and front vent design. The Oxy is an new single layer design, it's like it only has the top layer and no vents. Very easy to inflate the wing catch air and launch.

CG varies with each of these wings and would be hard to describe each.

Jack Z.



Jack Z.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
Some technical Q's:

How do you adjust AOA?

Where is your COG - in a straight line down from your flying lines? Is it just a matter of making sure the 'chariot' (still haven't worked out what it is called) hangs level from the flying lines?

Are all your wings 'open cell' with a netting front panel for inflation? I haven't seen a good pic of the front of the wings.

What kg are your servos? I was thinking of a single servo controlling a bar, like a powerkite flying bar. - so a central line taking the weight of the braking lines and the flying lines left to do what they are meant to do. In theory this would allow an adjustment to the AOA, within limits.



With the right servo and careful placement of servo rod onto the bar, I can have an infinitely adjustable ratio for tuning.



Looking at my kites, the Flexifoil is lighter and 'flatter' than the Ozone, but the Ozone is faster and more accurate to fly as a kite. It should be easy enough to swap them around and try both. I think I have a few more that may work - 2-line, rather than 4-line, but I would have to dig them up.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 11:38 PM
Crash Test Dummy
Brunei, Brunei-Muara, Masin
Joined Nov 2013
130 Posts
Great stuff. I was thinking of little plastic spacers to keep at least the centre section of the foil propped open - that's the kiss of death to flying soft foils - sandwiched skins. Easy enough to shake them open when you are on the ground and the kite is attached to you by 30' of line, not so easy when you are connected by RC

I started off getting back into RC by buying a Phantom quadcopter, but in reality it has had almost zero use - I am finding scratch-building much more fun and the ability for a fixed wing (or soft wing) to carry a camera long and far is much better - without risking $600 worth of heavy quad to do it with.

So, now I have a Phantom and an F550 to sell - the money can go towards much more interesting toys
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Old Apr 26, 2014, 09:32 PM
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Denmark, Central Denmark Region, Silkeborg
Joined Nov 2009
731 Posts
Hi everybody and welcome to Immike to "our little parafoil-section"!!

I've just read the last posts and thought I'd chime in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
Some technical Q's:
How do you adjust AOA?
Not all parafoil are made with the intent of letting the user adjust the angle of attack.
Some, like the Opale-paramodels's Oxy-series, comes entirely ready to fly with all the risers fully adjusted (one can, of course, always fiddle with the risers, but their already made installation doesn't really invite one to do that):
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Other models, like the 18$ HobbyKing parafoil, comes with the A, B, C and D -risers assembled on each their metal ring, which leaves the AOA to be defined (and set to a fix value):
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Then, there are models that are intended to eventually be flown using a speedbar to variate the incidence during flight. There exists different speedbar-systems, but often the AOA is controlled by a system of pulleys conneted to the front-risers (A, B...):
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._parapente.gif

There's a neat trick, Ludovic 56 shared with us not that long ago in the Opale-paramodels Oxy 0.5 -thread, to shorten any risers, temporarily or not, without having to restring anything... A picture speaks a thousend words:
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(photo by Ludivic 56)
Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
Where is your COG - in a straight line down from your flying lines? Is it just a matter of making sure the 'chariot' (still haven't worked out what it is called) hangs level from the flying lines?
I'll leave the CoG-question to be properly answered by someone more knowledgeable than me... Then, are you asking about the CoG relative to the parafoil or the paramotor-frame's CoG?
The paramotor-frame, gondola or chariot does not hang straight beneath the parafoil. It's slightly in front of it, dragging (for lack of better word) the parafoil. Usually the paramotor-frame is not level either, but tends to point upwards in the direction of flight ("nose/feet" up), maybe some 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
Are all your wings 'open cell' with a netting front panel for inflation? I haven't seen a good pic of the front of the wings.
Here you go, hope it helps!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
What kg are your servos?
It really depends on the para's setup (weightshifting, brakes...) it's weight and flyingspeed.
Just as examples: The Oxy 0.5 uses 2,2kg/cm for controling its brakelines (notice that this is a very small, light and slow paramotor), whereas their pilot-figurines "Max" and "Willy", intended for their larger parafoils (Spiral, Pulse, Fox...), have servos from and above 8kg/cm recommended.
Do notice that these are all piloted with the use of brakelines, unlike your weightshifting-project. Brakeline servos are likely to sustain much more stress during flight, than a servo connected to a weigthshifting-bar (it seems to me, but you might want confirmation on that point, I don't have much experience with weightshifting).
Quote:
Originally Posted by immike View Post
... It should be easy enough to swap them around and try both. I think I have a few more that may work - 2-line, rather than 4-line, but I would have to dig them up.
Just bare in mind, that you'll have to at least adjust you kites's risers to, hopefully, make them fly as paragliders.
I'm not to experienced in that matter either, but I beleive to know that there are significant differences between a traction-kite and a paraglider's risers (not only is the incidence different from a traction-kite to a paraglider, but there are other differences to).
Ludovic 56 seems to posses quite some knowledge about parafoils in general, maybe he'd chime in to give his say...

There's also another forum dedicated to rc-paragliding, that I'll gladly recommend: http://212.83.145.148/index.php?sid=...f354a1886821b1
The forum is french-spoken, but there are plenty of translators, that can help non-fracophones to benefit from it.
I assure you, it's full of kind people and great information.
It's thanks to Ludo that I know that forum, thank you Ludo!


Happy landings :-)
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Old Apr 27, 2014, 12:55 AM
Crash Test Dummy
Brunei, Brunei-Muara, Masin
Joined Nov 2013
130 Posts
That's great info! Thanks Chrizz. Especially about the COG and brake lines vs weight shifting.

Food for thought!
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Old May 05, 2014, 01:19 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2014
73 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by videokahuna View Post
Covered a lot of ground. I like the GPS logger what GPS are you using?
My longest flight 23 minutes... almost ditched on the beach, caught it at ground level. Tonight I got in a couple flights (no cam) with the OXY and a single sunset flight with my Sky Surfer MOD (GOPRO H3 BLK). Always fun.

The GOPRO is working but I did have to disassemble to remove an internal smudge. Now Smudge is gone all is in focus but now the front face lights no longer work... (not a show stopper)

Attachment 6130098

https://picasaweb.google.com/1074860...4SUPERNICETUES

Jack Z
San Diego CA
Nice shot Videokahuna,

I see you often on the beach in PB when I'm surfing. I'd like to build one up soon. Its been hard to find a Sky Surfer... Any other model you recommend that works great when moding out with other parts?
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Old May 05, 2014, 01:21 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2014
73 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by videokahuna View Post
Since the last ditching in the ocean I've rebuilt my knockoff with mostly Turnigy parts. Previous Motor was a XK2430-4500KV Brushless Inrunner Worked pretty well but I already had all the following parts below except the servo. I'm also using the gear reduction from a 2007 Parachute Sky. With Fast Eddie Precision Bearings 3x6 2.5 Flanged (Fit Perfect no hammer needed)

Same Bull Gear but the little gear (pinion) on the motor is replaced with 13T Pinion Gear Losi Mini-T GH Racing.

XK2430-5800KV Brushless Inrunner (Better than the XK2430-4500KV?)
Silver Aluminum Motor Heat Sink (24mm dia motor)
Turnigy Plush 25amp Speed Controller
Turnigy 9X 2.4GHz 8Ch Receiver (V2)
HK15138 Standard Analog Servo 38g / / 0.17s

Using a Turnigy 9X radio, 2S 7.4V 1350mAh 25C Lipos.

Ran through 1 battery tonight at home, hope to get out and fly again soon.
I'll post additional pictures. Really glad the GoPRO is still working, (AMAZED).

Jack Z.
San Diego, CA
Hi Jack, what knock off of the Surfer you running?
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Old May 05, 2014, 07:38 PM
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Joined Feb 2007
192 Posts
Sk8Brdr

I also sent you a private message.

I have a couple original Sky Surfers but my latest knock off MOD has been a Gold Rosita RC Paracopter. Would also consider a Graupner. I had bad luck (years ago) with quality of two mylar chrome reflective type wings. I have always replaced the Radio TX/RC, ESC, Motor, Batt the latest was using component listed above.

I would like to note that the Turnigy 9X has been a good buy but, I think I have experienced some connection loss while flying near a WIFI dense high rise building. I was a good distance away the paraglider was close to the building. Fortunately the paraglider just continued to glide away from the building and I re-gained control.

Jack Z.
San Diego
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