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Old Nov 05, 2012, 08:47 AM
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in one HobbyKing discussion, a guy said that when using 900mhz/200mw 4-channel FPV system, always use channel 0 on both tx/rx coz channels 1 to 3 will require ham radio license and there can be a $50K fine if caught without one ?

is he telling the truth ? for now i dont want to be a ham radio guy, i just want to fly FPV small time. should i just buy higher RF like 1.2 to 5.8 for just 2km or 1 mi range that will surely avoid trouble ?

appreciate any help.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 09:46 AM
Team White Llama!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbfermin View Post
in one HobbyKing discussion, a guy said that when using 900mhz/200mw 4-channel FPV system, always use channel 0 on both tx/rx coz channels 1 to 3 will require ham radio license and there can be a $50K fine if caught without one ?

is he telling the truth ? for now i dont want to be a ham radio guy, i just want to fly FPV small time. should i just buy higher RF like 1.2 to 5.8 for just 2km or 1 mi range that will surely avoid trouble ?

appreciate any help.
You need a license for any TX available right now. Channel 0(910mhz) is the only LEGAL channel.

Even if you have a ham license, channels 1-3 are illegal to use. That's why there's a big fine attached to using them.

Legal frequencies are

910mhz
1258mhz
1280mhz
2305mhz
2396mhz
2400-2450mhz (2450mhz is the upper limit and the actual channel is not legal.)
5.65ghz through 5.925ghz
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 09:47 AM
Team White Llama!
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...o_Spectrum.jpg

Anything in "amatuer" is sfe to use with an appropriate license.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gundamnitpete View Post
You need a license for any TX available right now. Channel 0(910mhz) is the only LEGAL channel.

Even if you have a ham license, channels 1-3 are illegal to use. That's why there's a big fine attached to using them.

Legal frequencies are

910mhz
1258mhz
1280mhz
2305mhz
2396mhz
2400-2450mhz
5.65ghz through 5.925ghz

2450 in usa is just like 1240 in Canada

Both are right on the boarder and if used spill into the band we are not allowed to use

Many people in USA think 2450 is legal but it's not

Just as many people say 1240 is not legal in Canada

I thought 1240 was legal before but recently start todo research and tell others of their mistakes as your last post

Even in Canada people still think 2450 is legal but it's not with the video tx we use that have no certification stickers

Also to use these video txs for mobile use like for fpv you need highest class ham licence

Just basic lowest ham licence most people have is not good enough

Low licence hams are not allowed in any way to interfere with other hams

Now if you only fly fpv not at all far away and do not send out transmissions all over the place you or ok but not by law

AMA and maac rules then you do not fly far away as example

The big thing is the type of licence you have lets you do far more things
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 03:43 PM
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You are correct in that 2450 is a "border" freqeuncy and not legal, I'll edit that.

However you are wrong about the license, you only need a technician class HAM license to operate the available transmitters.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gundamnitpete View Post
You are correct in that 2450 is a "border" freqeuncy and not legal, I'll edit that.

However you are wrong about the license, you only need a technician class HAM license to operate the available transmitters.
Actually my point was not if you need licence but
More to your point even with licence you are not alowed to use the transmitters you mention to everyone are legal

If they had stickers then yes you are right but they do not have stickers so unfortunately you are wrong

I as well as most use these video audio txs we talk about and are sold
So don't get me wrong I do as others do

But in an illegal way as all others like yourself

I just study law and important things as a hobby as well
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 07:05 PM
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Someone told me about this link

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post23187620

i see Pete is still wrong about the whole idea of what is legal and what is not
and reports me constantly as i now read in his thread

I get no points hehehe

as I am correct and Pete is wrong

one thing people should learn or i wish I learned long ago is some guys on rc groups will misslead you because they think they are correct

like a salesman who says his product is best and no other is better

or some guy on rc groups who says starts a thread saying bad things about someone like me

but is wrong, and very wrong,

you see the certification stickers on transmitters have to be there or the transmitter is illegal to sell and buy and use in canada and the usa as examples

people sneek the transmitters into the country from china as example in small batches and then resell them illegally in canada and usa

and we then use them illegally as fpv

Pete is unaware of the law and rules

he does however make himself look in a bad light by starting thread as he did

ignorance is no excuse for trying to make someone look like whom they are not

that is some sort of violation on rc groups
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gundamnitpete View Post
However you are wrong about the license, you only need a technician class HAM license to operate the available transmitters.
That is correct, in the US. It may not be applicable in Canada.
He's probably confusing Part 15 or Part 90 FCC stickers with FCC Part 97 (HAM) requirements.

FCC Part 15 stickers are required on all license-free consumer devices
(phones, baby monitors, Wifi routers, laptops, etc) that may emit or
receive radio signals. Part 15 states that the device may not emit interference
to other licensed devices and must accept interference from licensed devices and places
strict limits on the output power. In the context of analog radio emitters Part 15 limits the
maximum transmitted power to very small values that vary with frequency band. At the
video frequencies we operate on, the limit is somewhere around 1mW.
This is why when people here ask "Where can I find a license free FPV video transmitter?" we
tell them. "You can't. There are no Part 15 compliant license-free FPV transmitters that have
an FCC sticker, and even if they did, the output power would be too low to be used for FPV purposes."
"But but... what if.. "
"There are none. You may only operate this gear legally as a licensed HAM."
(more on this in a sec).

The only other significant FCC sticker on some radio devices is Part 90. It is used on
commercial and public sector band radios (police, fire, S&R.. etc). Not relevant here.

So back to the HAM license. FCC Part 97 covers all US HAM operations.
Part 97 licensed HAM operations are exempt from FCC equipment certification requirements.
Therefore, in the US (not necessarily true in other countries) if you obtain a Technician
class license, you can:
1. Purchase radio equipment that does not have FCC sticker of any type.
2. Build your own radio transceiver from scratch capable of operating on any frequency.
3. Operate any radio transceiver as long as you ensure that you only transmit within the legal HAM bands.

However, vendors of radio equipment have an additional restriction. They cannot
market or sell radios to US HAMs that are capable of transmitting outside the HAM bands (unless
it carries an FCC certification for those non-HAM bands).
That causes some confusion because it is legal for a US HAM to buy or build a radio that can
transmit outside the HAM bands as long a they don't actually do so, but it's not legal to market
or sell a radio with such capabilities.

To reiterate, the only thing that governs HAM operations in the US is FCC Part 97,
and there is no such thing as a Part 97 FCC sticker. Period. The only restriction the FCC cares
about is that non-FCC certified equipment sold for HAM use is not capable of transmitting
on non-HAM bands. That's why, when the FCC has cracked down on US based FPV
vendors, the only change they're forced to make to comply, is to restrict the transmitter to US
HAM legal frequencies and informing customers that they must be licensed HAMs to use
that equipment. That's it.

The rules above, only apply when operating within the US. Some other countries may
have similar rules, or they may be completely different. If you're a HAM operating
in a different country, it's your responsibility to understand what it legal for you and what isn't.
You might need a more advanced license for instance.

Here's an interesting case where FCC went after NGHobbies (based in Canada) because
they were marketing video transmitters to US customers that could transmit on restricted bands.
http://www.fcc.gov/document/new-generation-hobbies
It's a long interesting read, but the relevant bits are near the end.
Quoting from the document, they describe the violation of restricted frequencies as such:
"The subject transmitters intentionally transmit radio frequency energy on restricted
frequencies within the 2310-2390 and 2483.5-2500 MHz bands. "


Notice that the legal HAM legal frequencies we use are all outside their stated ranges.
2305 (center), 2395 (center), 2400 to 2450(edge). Thus they're not
saying it's illegal for HAMs to operate this equipment on HAM legal frequencies, but it's illegal
to sell a radio to HAMs that is capable of transmitting on non-HAM bands.

And here, is a quote from an FCC representative in the same document, summing up everything
I've said above. (emphasis added by me)
"Furthermore, while amateur radio service equipment is exempt from the FCC's equipment
certification requirement
, it is a violation of the Commission's regulations to market
in the United States a transmitter that is designed or intended to operate on frequencies
outside of the authorized amateur radio service bands if such equipment has not been
issued a grant of equipment certification."


BTW, there do exist transceivers that are sold for operation in the HAM bands,
that carry either a Part 90 (commercial or public sector) certification and/or a Part 15
certification. The former are usually marketed to public sector operators, like
search and rescue personnel who need to communicate both on 2m HAM bands
for emergencies and fire/police bands. The Part 15 certification on such devices
only covers the receiver portion for unlicensed use and is usually to certify that the
microprocessor or intermediate frequency radio oscillator does not generate spurious
emissions in the lower UHF bands if a non-licensed operator simply turns the radio on.
Neither certification has *anything* to do with normal Part 97 transmissions.

ian
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 09:36 PM
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Interesting reading your post Ian as well as provided link

This is just a hobby for me and don't want to get so far into it but find it interesting

Again don't take me wrong I buy video Txs and stuff and use them just like most on rc groups

But

I talk to and ask questions recently to some people

One big store who sells major radio gear in Canada only sells certain things to actual ham licences people, I bought UHF yagi antenna for tx as example, and had to provide ham licence information in order to complete sale

Supposedly to import video Txs as example you have to have them tested first or else customs will not let them in, this is consumer protection and not to let in video Txs that are harmfull into the country

I understand the last post but it misses how these video Txs get into the country to be resold

There is major point that is missed

Being the loop hole of import and export as well as resale of untested non snickered video Txs

I bought from hobby king video Txs that are not legal as example recently for like $15 each
The shipping tag said rc toys and value

You see even hobby king
Sells video Txs as example to just anyone and also those that are illegal and have to pass through customs but slip through undetected

Canada must be very similar to the USA of a
I thought USA was more strict
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Video Interference

I've been searching RC groups for a few days with no luck. So If someone could point me in the right direction or different thread that would awesome.

long story short

I'm getting some interference from my 2.4ghz tx on my 5.8ghz AV reciever. as seen in the youtube vid.

20121116_101106.mp4 (1 min 14 sec)


I noticed it when when I only come closer to the screen/ground station when flying FPV all other times its crystal clear. it starts about 2m away from the Ground station The Interference also happens when the 2.4 TX aerial is at different orientations. overall pretty annoying as I've missed something along the way.. I must also explain that while the video shows that I am almost touching the Antenna with my TX. When I'm flying I've got about a 2m zone around the screen before I get that type of interference(the antenna is normally on a tripod about 3m away from the screen.)

I've eliminated the fact that the interference might be caused from the plane/video tx as there is no interference when I move my TX closer to the Video TX.


I've tried a few ferrite rings as well and LP filters etc with no success on ground station as well

The list of equipment is as follows.

from Hobbyking.

200mW 5.8Ghz video tx/ rx set. running off 3s lipos and sony CCD camera.
(these have a CP tx antenna and Clover leaf RX antenna.

flysky/turnigy 9x transmitter
7" LCD screen running off 12v

also a HK tiny OSD (but that is only a new addition and I was getting the interference before that was installed.


I know the easy answer get a pair of goggles and get further away from the ground station.... but i do want still fly fpv..

Any Ideas?? oh yeah sorry for the rushed explanation..
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:52 AM
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Try repositioning your ferrites along the coax
Add more if needed

I found the actual install ie location of ferrites makes big difference

Two inches up or down the coax cleared up my video
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:25 PM
DJO
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Switch to a different, lower 5.8 frequency. Go to the lowest one. All the others interfere with 2.4 control/are interfered by.



Dan
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meh32 View Post
I've eliminated the fact that the interference might be caused from the plane/video tx as there is no interference when I move my TX closer to the Video TX.

200mW 5.8Ghz video tx/ rx set. running off 3s lipos and sony CCD camera.
(these have a CP tx antenna and Clover leaf RX
Generally the two should not interfere much, perhaps the Vtx is very noisy. I'd also check the location of the receiver and Vtx. They should be far apart and Vtx not near motor or ESC. If they are on the same power, make sure to add a LC filter.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHMX View Post
Generally the two should not interfere much, perhaps the Vtx is very noisy. I'd also check the location of the receiver and Vtx. They should be far apart and Vtx not near motor or ESC. If they are on the same power, make sure to add a LC filter.
Video tx can be right next or on top of esc with no reduced range in video

It's the rx you need to be concerned about

I mount video tx right on top of esc and have great video

Tx only output and as long as wires don't cross and placed well can be put near noisy things

I actually mount video,tx and esc together with gap
So the same cooling set up cools,both

It's like a video tx and esc sandwich and has no problems

Ground tests will show you this
Depending on your choice of fpv components
You will have no problem


It's the cameras that are real,problems more or,less
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:06 PM
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Thanks for sharing this advice, Brian!

Brian,

Thanks for sharing this awesome & helpful information with the community!

I wish I had this advice back when I started into FPV... this is great advice.

Thanks,
Kevin
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