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Old Jun 18, 2011, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
It has to go camera > special cable > any standard USB extension cable > any powered usb port (battery/computer/hub etc.) and it will work just fine. The only reason the special cable is there is to have a special connector pinout for the camera, anything you plug into the other end will work just fine provided the camera gets power through it.
Thanks!
I did another test with a new extension cable, all good.
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Old Jun 18, 2011, 06:37 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
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Originally Posted by pät View Post
Hi,

I now tested several SD cards for my buzzing problem. I also measured the length of a typical buzz, using an audio analysis software. Here the results:

The freshly charged battery lasted today 44 min (battery dead), yesterday >47 min (I switched of myself)
With all cards, the buzzing appears (or gets louder) with low battery (last few minutes)
Video is OK with all cards.

1) Sandisk 512 MB, class unknown (2?)
No buzzing at all until battery gets low
typ. buzz length 200ms

2) Sandisk 2 GB, class unknown (2?), but newer that 1)
No buzzing until battery gets low
but: if you turn volume as loud as possible, you can hear the "buzz" with full battery as a change in bachground noise
typ. buzz length 130 ms

3) unknown manufacturer, 8 GB, class 4
buzzing already audible with full battery, but quiet
typ. buzz length 100 ms

4) Transcend 4 GB, class 6
buzzing already audible with full battery, louder that 3)
typ. buzz length 70 ms

I think the "buzz" is the time interval when the camera writes to the card. (Right?) This needs power and leads to a voltage drop of the battery, generating the buzz.
This leads to the following explanation:
The faster the card, the shorter the writing interval, but the higher the current the card consumes, and the higher the voltage drop.

It would be interesting if other users also observe this buzzing with full battery in combination with fast cards, or whether only my camera has this problem. It is not very loud, if you are recording in a car or on a model plane, you won't hear it anyway.

Patrick
I just made a recording in a quiet room of 38:58 minutes until the battery died. I had to listen REALLY hard to barely hear the buzzing sounds begin to start 10 minutes from the end. If I set the sound level to normal, I would not hear anything noticeable until about 8 minutes before the end. My flash memory is a 4GB CL6 Transcend card.

I could hear two distinct different buzzing sounds... one short buzz at exactly one second intervals, and one more sporadic buzz of slightly higher frequency and longer duration, starting every one to 2 seconds. Some of that could be caused by the write period to the memory card as you theorized. Some might be an artifact of the real time clock.

In earlier tests done by myself and Isoprop with external battery packs, it seemed to indicate the capacity of the flash card was definitely a factor in power consumption and battery duration (more memory to keep powered during the recording). I don't know how much of a factor the recording speed might have been, but your theory makes some sense.

But there must be something about the camera hardware, too, that causes some camera's like your to start having audible sounds sooner than mine. Maybe just component tolerance differences?

Fortunately I normally mute the sound in my AV recordings, but I sure wish a simple fix for the buzzing could be found.
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Old Jun 18, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Micro / SD Card Power consumption

Hi everyone - interesting topic and I thought I'd add some thoughts on this subject.
To my knowledge, the read-write speed of memory in general, is directly related to the wafer / die size and the size of the semiconductor junctions used in it's manufacturer. The smaller the semiconductor junctions are (in nanometers), the faster they can physically operate or switch from one state to another.

Scenario : 2 x 4 GB MicroSD cards from the same manufacturer - one is class 2, the other class 6. If both cards are forced to operate at the same speed, let's say for arguments sake, a sedentary 8Mhz - the class 6 will use less power than the class 2 due to it's smaller, lower power junction sizes.

All well and good, but when the class 6 card is operated at it's 'ideal' higher speed to attain say 6MB/s RW speed, it will most likely use the same power as a class 2 card operating at a lower speed for 2MB/s RW.

In the grand scheme of things, the DSC processor and control circuitry in the #11 camera uses 80% of the battery power. The typical recording current consumption at 4.0V is 280ma. This varies as much as +/- 30ma with variations in the RGB data received from the camera module.

I'd be happy to discuss how you can acurately compare the power consumption of any individual MicroSD card fitted to the #11 camera, if it would be useful to readers.

Further reading :

http://www.dtt8.com/images/micro-sd%20specification.pdf

http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tec...nal_100518.pdf

Richard
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Last edited by timetec; Jun 18, 2011 at 08:24 PM.
Old Jun 18, 2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timetec View Post
Hi everyone - interesting topic and I thought I'd add some thoughts on this.
To my knowledge, the speed of memory in general, is directly related to the wafer / die size and the size of the semiconductor junctions used in manufacturer. The smaller (in nanometers) the semiconductor juntions are, the faster they can physically operate or switch from one state to another.
...
Richard
Makes sense, Richard. What doesn't make sense to me though, is why a 4GB CL6 Transcend card is twice as fast in random writes as an 8GB CL6 Transcend card, both of similar vintage so their on-board controller should function similarly I'd think. If anything the 8GB card physical layout factors you mentioned should be the same size or even smaller to fit the twice the memory on the same physical card size. Maybe you can shed some light on that? Two tests of these two cards done with Crystal Disk Mark benchmarking tool are attached. True, the tool was a beta release in one test (the faster 4GB card test) and the final release in the other, but I don't think that would impact the speed readings as shown in the test results.

p.s. Not complaining... the cards are performing like CL10 cards for all practical purposes!... just curious.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jun 18, 2011 at 08:41 PM.
Old Jun 19, 2011, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

I could hear two distinct different buzzing sounds... one short buzz at exactly one second intervals, and one more sporadic buzz of slightly higher frequency and longer duration, starting every one to 2 seconds. Some of that could be caused by the write period to the memory card as you theorized. Some might be an artifact of the real time clock.
Right. I also hear two different buzzing sounds like you. I determined the duration of the buzz that appears at the one second intervals.

I also noticed that the sound frequency (tone pitch in english?) is different for each card.

I think it's really a problem with component tolerances. Maybe a problem with capacitors, that cannot properly buffer some peak power consuptions? As I cannot stop the full battery buzzing by connecting to a power supply, it should be somewhere "within" the circuit.

@Richard
I'm not an expert in SD details. But I take from your ref. 2 that the card can take different max currents depending on bus speed (Table 3-4)? My two Sandisk cards both are standard SD (SDSC), while the others are SDHC. According to the table, SDSC is limited to 200 mA, while SDHC can take up to 800 mA. Can you shed light on this?
What bus speeds are usually used with the different cards? Does #11 use variable speeds for different cards? I think it's difficult to find out...

Patrick
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Last edited by pät; Jun 19, 2011 at 07:37 AM.
Old Jun 19, 2011, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pät View Post
Does #11 use variable speeds for different cards? I think it's difficult to find out...Patrick
Hi Patrick, a 'standard' microSDHC card has a maximum RW current consumption of 60ma to 80ma.
See this link and click on the 'Technical Data' tab : http://www.toshiba-memory.com/en/micro_sd_cards.html
As for bus speed, I can only tell you that #11's clock frequency is 12Mhz. Obviously, the bus speed can't possibly be any higher than this.
The only way to check the data bus speed for definate, is to get a fq counter / scope on pin 5 of the card (clock).
If you can somehow interrupt pin 4 to the card (+ve supply), you could monitor the current consumption of the card in circuit, while it was reading and writing. If you have a 'duff' microSD card lying about and a spare microSD socket, it shouldn't be too hard to knock up an external card slot, allowing easy access to all 8 lines.

Richard
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 02:28 PM
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1) Do all of the HD #11s have a red LED or do some have a yellow LED??

2) Looking for a #11 with time/date stamp already removed. PM if you have a good one.
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 02:37 PM
svo
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Houston
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141 Posts
Got my camera the other day. It's been too windy to stick it on a plane so I've been messing with sticking it on my 29 ford.

Everything looks okay,..Just having trouble with the sound going to hell with the wind etc.


I've tried lots of different things. maybe the car and vibration is just too much for it.


I also caught the second video yesterday at a fly-in using the #11


29 ford tudor (2 min 50 sec)



debby rhin (0 min 21 sec)
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 02:40 PM
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Sentry, removing the time/date stamp is the easiest thing, no risk at all.
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 02:46 PM
svo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tushev View Post
Sentry, removing the time/date stamp is the easiest thing, no risk at all.


+1 I removed mine,.was fast and easy
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 03:02 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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I removed mine on my orig cams - but I can't get it to work on the 2 that I have. I got them WAY early - well before this thread existed - LOL. So I think they are too early to hack properly w/out bricking.
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 04:31 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SENTRY 62 View Post
1) Do all of the HD #11s have a red LED or do some have a yellow LED??

2) Looking for a #11 with time/date stamp already removed. PM if you have a good one.
The #11 has both red and yellow LEDS, for different function indications.

Most of the vendors listed in Post #2 will remove the date stamp prior to shipping if you ask.

Also, the date removal for these cameras is done by loading in new firmware by simply copying the new firmware onto the camera's flash memory card and turning on the camera, not by downloading the firmware from the camera and hacking it to remove the date fonts like the old 808 low res cameras. This thread started shortly after the new #11's appeared and were reported in this forum, so I'm curious if the older cameras you are referring to are the TRUE #11 HD cameras, or the older 808 low-res variety?
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jun 19, 2011 at 04:37 PM.
Old Jun 19, 2011, 04:45 PM
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SENTRY 62's Avatar
Powder Springs, GA
Joined Sep 2010
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I have not been able to get a red LED at all... that fact along with the fact that multiple removal attempts isn't working has me wondering - LOL.

I bought 3 cams at once - and gave 1 away to Derek_S - he performed the date removal and posted the results. Im wondering if they are just the low(er) res cams though. I will say that the quality does look much better than my orginal 808s.

FPV Radian Keychain #11 Test 1 (2 min 44 sec)
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SENTRY 62 View Post
I have not been able to get a red LED at all... that fact along with the fact that multiple removal attempts isn't working has me wondering - LOL.

I bought 3 cams at once - and gave 1 away to Derek_S - he performed the date removal and posted the results. Im wondering if they are just the low(er) res cams though. I will say that the quality does look much better than my orginal 808s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HilbTEcN0AU
Did you edit the video you uploaded to YouTube before uploading it? If not, then the video confirms the cameras are definitely NOT the #11 cams. The #11 have a wide screen (16:9) aspect ratio 1280x720 pixels, and YouTube would give the option of displaying in 720 resolution if that is what you uploaded. So, it's no wonder that attempts to flash in new firmware meant for the #11 did not work! See post #1 and #2 for more info on identifying the true #11 camera and links to vendors who sell them.
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Old Jun 19, 2011, 05:13 PM
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Powder Springs, GA
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Derek edited it - yes.

I will check the 1st posts... but I do find it interesting that Derek used the process in this thread to remove the date stamp - as far I know this process won't work for the low res cams correct?

What's the easiest way to get the LED to illuminate red?
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