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Old Mar 20, 2004, 12:29 AM
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Cannes Mandelieu, France
Joined Jun 2003
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ambroid glue?

what is ambroid glue?
is it the white glue used by carpenters(vinylic glue diluted with water) or something else?
thanks.
patrick.
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 02:33 AM
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United States, VA, Clintwood
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Ambroid is nitrocellulose based glue with acetone and other solvents as well as plasticizers. It is similar to Duco. Duco is clear and Ambroid is clear but has a yellowish tint.

Elmer's White glue I think is PVA as well is yellow Carpenters Glue.

Ambroid and Duco is used by indoor duration modelers. Both are lighter weight than the PVA and Cyano Acrylate glues. Both can be thinned with acetone so you can use a glue tip with a tiny ID to be sparing with application.
Joints made with nitrocellulose glues can be loosened with acetone and repostioned. I use Duco but they have recently added some form of detterant for glue sniffers. Not sure if it effects the properties of the glue other than smell but it sure smells different.

I'm thinking of trying to find nitrocellulose plastic to disolve in acetone and add plasticizers. I did find a nice crispy clear paint bottle cap that melted with acetone and I disolved it in Dope thinner to pour some mini microfillm sheets for my 3" rubber powered planes. It seems to work ok as a glue and smells better than the new Duco since it is disolved in dope thinner. I'm not sure what difference MEK/Acetone/toluene will make as a thinner for glue instead of acetone besides evaporation of solvent rate.

Testors wood and metal glue is similar as well but has a causes cancer in California label warning.

Billy
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 03:22 AM
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N. Staffs, UK
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Not sure if it helps but in the UK the equivalent to Ambroid is usually just called "Balsa Cement". As Billy says it is very light and can be repositioned. It also sticks very fast.

It is very different from carpenters glues which are either PVA or aliphatics and take much much longer to stick.

Steve
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 03:39 AM
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Billy,
ping pong balls are nitrocellulose and diszolve in acetone , I have used them to mould igniters for rocket motors - mix the diszolved nitrocellulose with other pyrotechnic additives insert a michrome element , let them dry . very firery
Stewart
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 05:50 AM
It's a spiderweb of knit lines
Souderton Pa. USA
Joined Mar 2002
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Billy
"Testors wood and metal glue is similar as well but has a causes cancer in California label
warning."
I think you're safe....you're not in California

Mike
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 07:09 AM
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Brooklyn NY
Joined Feb 2004
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Ambroid is unsurpassed for gluing balsa, and other porous materials, IMO, for the reasons stated above. I think it's been replaced by CA, which is a shame since it's so versatile. I've heard people remark, when looking at indoor duration models, "Where's the glue?"

Billy,
Let's see those 3 inch planes! with the 20mah Kokam's right around the corner, they could be an inspiration...

Robert
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 07:41 AM
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Cannes Mandelieu, France
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thanks to all.
i have an old pot of nitrocellulose grains.
i think it's like "uhu hart" in france.
i have just finished my first carved balsa prop.
it was a great pleasure for me but not for my thumb!
balsa carved props are so nice!(isn'it billy).
since i saw koichi 3 gr plane i have strange dreams.not you!(isn't it robert)
patrick.
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 08:51 AM
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United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcross
Billy
"Testors wood and metal glue is similar as well but has a causes cancer in California label
warning."
I think you're safe....you're not in California

Mike
You beat me to the "Good thing you're not in California" jab. What were they thinking when they came up with that wording??

I recently got back to Ambroid myself. I have developed a sensitivity to CA. The odorless CA is ok for now. But, I've heard that you can develop a sensitivity to that too. At least the Ambroid will kill me slowly and not from respritory arrest like the CA. It is very thick and heavy straight from the tube. Thinned and in a syringe it is great!
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 09:14 AM
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Patrick,

Quote:
Originally posted by bleriot 11
i think it's like "uhu hart" in france.
[/B]
being on the right side of the big pond as well (at least if you don't hold the map upside down ) UHU hart is what I also think is the stuff that is most similar to Ambroid. At least it also contents Acetone and cellulose, dries fast and light (because most of it is solvent) and is good for balsa and metal.

Does Ambroid stick to the skin when drying and smells ugly?

Regards, Jochen
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 10:06 AM
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Ambroid is great stuff, been using it since I was a kid, on models that is. If you pre-glue the joints and let them dry you can finish the joint with just a touch of fresh glue and it dries almost instantly. Thin the pre-glue with a touch of acetone and it will penatrate the wood better for a stronger joint. The last tube of Ambroid I bought was the same as it always has been. I think Duco is more of a mass-market product and they need to be more careful with the abuse issue than Ambroid, which I only see in hobby shops. My 2 cents worth.
PS- same pre-glue method works well with PVA-white glues, Sig has a good one as does Tite-Bond. Just don't thin with acetone, water works well, and a touch of ammonia will speed things up.

Dave
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 11:16 AM
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Seattle
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Dave,

You said "a touch of fresh glue and it dries almost instantly", how long does it take for the pre-glued joints to dry? How long will it last in the tube? That is one thing I really dislike about CA, once you open a bottle it doesn't take long before it starts to lose it's "kick".

- Matt
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 11:17 AM
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I forgot which glue was aliphatic and which was PVA. The label did not exactly say if you were in California you would get cancer but was more to the effect that it has been known to to cause cancer in the state of California.
I guess that's where tests were done. My girlfreind always says your not in California when I read the labels. It is fun to carve a prop and I'll look for ping pong balls. I heard some turn orange. One of these days I'll order some TCP but till then will probably use castor oil. I was thinking that the plastic allready had plasticisizer in it. One more question since we are allmost on the subject. I've been pouring micro film uising Duco and I was wondering if polymicro is poured like micro film or is it stretched like other plastic films and what it is it made of that will not melt in acetone? That's 2 questions. Here's a photo of my 3" plane. I have built a few others but this one flys the best. The best time is 1:09. I think I can build a lighter weight one now. Some of the other ones were more heavy and might make good R/C planes when the equipment is available. I think a kok20 will be too heavy for a plane this size.

Billy
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 11:55 AM
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Matt,

I've had tubes of Ambroid around for years if they are properly sealed up. Off hand I would say the pre-glue should dry in about 10 minutes. The thing is to mark and pre-glue a bunch of joints at once then do something else while it dries. It's a different thought process than the way you build with ca, but I learned it when there was no ca so it just came natural. Ca has it's place and I use it, I just don't like the fumes from the kicker and the glue, so I use it as little as possible.
I've never been to Califorina. If I go there I think I would be more worried about it breaking off and falling into the Pacific than I would be about getting cancer. Besides, something is going to get us all sooner or later.

Dave
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 03:16 PM
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Seattle
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I just got some at the local hobby store, I assume that since it has acetone in it, that it is not foam safe. Is that a safe assumption?

- Matt
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Old Mar 20, 2004, 03:31 PM
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United States, VA, Clintwood
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That is a safe assumption.
If there were a glue like Ambroid or Duco that could be used with foam it would be great.
I have tried UHU Por and it works great with foam. It dries fast but I do not think it can be reposoitioned if you add solvent. Do any of the other foam safe glues work like Ambroid and Duco? When I say work like Ambroid and Duco I mean can the joint be repositioned with a foam safe solvent?

Billy
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