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Old Oct 24, 2012, 08:19 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,261 Posts
Which is one of the best arguments for gyros IMO.

My 2c worth......

You cannot fly a model "with the characteristics of it's full size counterpart" since the model flies at totally different Reynolds number etc etc. Quite apart from the different power/weight ratios most models have compared with their full size counterparts. The striking thing about watching many scale models fly is that (at least for smaller ones) how unrealistic they are in their responses compared with the full size. Even if they are well flown and a brilliant example of scale craftsmanship.

What a gyro can do is partly offset the non-scale effects of wind and external disturbances.

The one universal remark that people make when they see or fly a gyro equipped small scale model is how much smoother and more realistic the flight is.

I'm currently waiting for one of the new Origin SuperMicro stabilised bricks to put in my P51 or 190 to see if the facts bear out my opinion.

John


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Originally Posted by beetyii View Post
I

Learn to fly your model with "the characteristics of its full scale counterpart" ...

Rolf
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 08:48 PM
Transmogrified.
DismayingObservation's Avatar
Southern California
Joined Feb 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Which is one of the best arguments for gyros IMO.

My 2c worth......

You cannot fly a model "with the characteristics of it's full size counterpart" since the model flies at totally different Reynolds number etc etc. Quite apart from the different power/weight ratios most models have compared with their full size counterparts. The striking thing about watching many scale models fly is that (at least for smaller ones) how unrealistic they are in their responses compared with the full size. Even if they are well flown and a brilliant example of scale craftsmanship.

What a gyro can do is partly offset the non-scale effects of wind and external disturbances.

The one universal remark that people make when they see or fly a gyro equipped small scale model is how much smoother and more realistic the flight is.

I'm currently waiting for one of the new Origin SuperMicro stabilised bricks to put in my P51 or 190 to see if the facts bear out my opinion.

John
I have both the E-flite UMX Beast and UMX Gee Bee. The Beast is so stable that it's almost unreal, but no, it doesn't fly like a full scale plane. The Gee Bee is somewhat better in that regard. It's larger, a bit smoother and somewhat faster but doesn't roll as quickly. The Beast is a snap rolling little monkey while the Gee Bee is more of a baby pylon racer.

That said, I'd love to see future designs based on the AS3X brick and a suitable aileron servo or servos.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 03:19 AM
MICROACES's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
382 Posts
Love getting stuck into a spot of R&D so I'll certainly be looking at stabilization systems in the future as it would definately increase the flight envelope into more windy conditions.

I flew in a smaller hall on Tuesday - it was possibly a little to small height wise with some lower hanging ironwork (3D & heli heaven) but I mixed in some rudder and opposite aileron (about -10% aileron) and got her turning nice and flat on rudder. Still hit the walls a lot but with a bit of practice it should work out. Might also try a little throttle & elevator mix to try to keep things a little flatter height wise too!?

Here are a few shots I managed to get of the Fw190 'Black 8' in flight on Saturday whilst one of the club members was having a go. Hats off to those that take those magazine shots of RC aircraft. It's not the easiest thing to do. I had my camera on 50 shot burst mode and only got a couple of useables (web only) and no 'wow factor' shots at all.

Jon
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 10:56 AM
Make the best of all you have
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Essen/Germany
Joined Dec 2006
569 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Which is one of the best arguments for gyros IMO.

My 2c worth......

You cannot fly a model "with the characteristics of it's full size counterpart" since the model flies at totally different Reynolds number etc etc. Quite apart from the different power/weight ratios most models have compared with their full size counterparts. The striking thing about watching many scale models fly is that (at least for smaller ones) how unrealistic they are in their responses compared with the full size. Even if they are well flown and a brilliant example of scale craftsmanship.

What a gyro can do is partly offset the non-scale effects of wind and external disturbances.

The one universal remark that people make when they see or fly a gyro equipped small scale model is how much smoother and more realistic the flight is.

I'm currently waiting for one of the new Origin SuperMicro stabilised bricks to put in my P51 or 190 to see if the facts bear out my opinion.

John
I was talking about "the characteristics" that should be the same, I don't said that small models fly as the real plane - big difference.

A model of a J3 should be a forgiving plane like the real one, a model of a Gee Bee should be a little difficult when landing etc.

So, the AS3X is helpfull in "non optimal conditions" but it also can change the characteristic of a plane in an unrealistic way.

I think it is a question of programming - it could be nice but sometimes it isn't.

Sometimes AS3X can fight against your input and the things you want to do with your model - from that point I would like to turn off AS3X.


It is like ESC in your car, it makes the driving for most driver more safe, but if you are able to control your car in a more advanced

manner, it will kill the fun (with the exception of PORSCHE their advanced ESC is one off the finest) and you are only able to get to know the real

characteristics of your car if you drive it without ESC.


Every thing has two sides, so if I'm able to turn off AS3X if I want to - everything is fine, but for the moment I have to live with both sides

of AS3X - dislike.

I like the look and behaviour of a war bird, so I don't like to change its characteristic because it'll kill the fun for me but that is a matter of opinion - like everything in live.


@ Jon

To make photos of such a nice detailed little plane with a "wow effect" you really need an expensive equipment and a lot of experience - or

simply luck.


Rolf
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 11:32 AM
MICROACES's Avatar
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Originally Posted by beetyii View Post
@ Jon

To make photos of such a nice detailed little plane with a "wow effect" you really need an expensive equipment and a lot of experience - or

simply luck.


Rolf
or a long pole, a fine fishing line and some photo editing skills - so I've been told
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 03:34 PM
KK6MQJ
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Originally Posted by MICROACES View Post
or a long pole, a fine fishing line and some photo editing skills - so I've been told
I have always had pretty good success with this and a fast shutter speed!

500mm worth of glass (really 750mm when shooting an APS-C body) usually helps level the playing field a bit, although the yield is still honestly at times less than 10%.

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Last edited by Bajora; Oct 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Changed 7500mm to 750mm
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 04:56 PM
Kev Waite
Plymouth UK
Joined Nov 2005
346 Posts
I used to use that Sigma lense for model shots. When you got it right the results were superb, but as you said many, many wasted shots before getting the odd great one.

About re-programing the Spits AS3X board for brushless. I contacted Horizon and received this reply:

Hello Kevin,

Thank you for contacting Horizon Hobby's Product Support Department.
*Please do not respond to this email* This email address is not monitored. Please use the link below.

No you cannot the X-port is designed for a brushless system but we never supported the part to make it work.

To reply to this e-mail or to place another Horizon Hobby Support Inquiry, please visit our inquiry form. If you are referencing a past request, please include the following ticket number when prompted: 48,478

Don't forget, our phone staff is available at 1-877-504-0233, Monday through Friday, 8am-7pm CST, Saturday 8-5pm CST and Sunday Noon-5PM CST.

Thank you,
David
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 02:35 PM
KK6MQJ
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Joined Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by rcpaintfx View Post
I used to use that Sigma lense for model shots. When you got it right the results were superb, but as you said many, many wasted shots before getting the odd great one.
I was not indicting the lens as the reason for the low yield as much as I was saying that the difficult nature of shooting small models in fast forward flight is indeed challenging.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 04:58 PM
Kev Waite
Plymouth UK
Joined Nov 2005
346 Posts
Sorry should have explained a bit more. Nothing wrong with the lense I found it superb. As you said trying to capture small models with a 500mm lense handheld is challenging. But with practice and steady hands you can get these small models to fill the entire frame and when you get it right the results are incredible.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 05:03 PM
Kev Waite
Plymouth UK
Joined Nov 2005
346 Posts
Ok, just finished some testing to get a brushless ESC working with the Spit's AS3X brick. Changing the brick into brushless mode in the same way as the AR6400 I have already established through testing and confirmation from Horizon does not work and cannot be made to work.

However I have a solution that does work.

Using the programming information for the AR6400 I first changed the second reversed aileron servo socket on the brick back to be channel 6. Then connected the servo input leads from the external ESC to the now channel 6 servo socket on the Spit's brick. I mixed channel 6 on my transmitter to throttle on my transmitter and I now have brushless power that works for the Spit's AS3X brick.

Now I can try and shoehorn the Spit's AS3X brick into my FW190

Kevin
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 01:56 AM
Microaces Wingman
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UK. Dorset
Joined Jun 2009
375 Posts
Genius!

Now it's Butcher Birds turn to be put under the knife...Ha.....ha........ha

Jon
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 08:26 AM
Make the best of all you have
beetyii's Avatar
Essen/Germany
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbird View Post
Genius!

Now it's Butcher Birds turn to be put under the knife...Ha.....ha........ha

Jon
@ Kevin,

please don't kill this little bird ...


Rolf
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:22 AM
Kev Waite
Plymouth UK
Joined Nov 2005
346 Posts
I won't be killing the Spitfire, It has never been flown yet, but after our last indoor meeting one guy's spit was trashed in a midair, so the airframe will be going to a good home and I get a 1S AS3X brick fairly cheap. I am done with 1S brushed setups and will be either 1S or 2S brushless from now on. Out of all the airframes I have seen so far the brick in the Spitfire is the easiest to remove without any damage to the airframe.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 01:59 PM
Kev Waite
Plymouth UK
Joined Nov 2005
346 Posts
Well managed to squeeze it in. I did need to re-program the gyro direction as the brick is installed 180 degrees to the spitfire.

Kev
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 03:07 PM
Registered User
Gulf Breeze, FL
Joined Jul 2006
2,881 Posts
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Originally Posted by rcpaintfx View Post
Well managed to squeeze it in.
Nice, Kev. What did you do about the aileron servo?

Gene K
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