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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:12 AM
Intermediate Multi
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Columbus, OH
Joined Mar 2005
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If necessary the hole in the bellcrank could be slotted. That would allow for the arc movement.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:26 AM
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Atlanta, GA USA
Joined Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by P_J_Glor View Post
Beautiful assembly job on this plan! You would never know that it was pasted up from separate pages.

Pete G.
Thanks Pete! These old magazine plans need to be saved like this so they are usable. It does take some doing though.

Planeman
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:31 PM
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Southern Ontario, Canada
Joined Nov 2001
604 Posts
Bellcranks do create slop in the control system and I feel slotting the crank would introduce even more slop. Looking at the diagram, one would worry about the swing arc of the bellcrank and binding of the wire in the hinge tube. Even now when I look at it, I think the same thing.
I measured the actual movement of the bellcrank on my Falcon. Where the ball link is located on the bellcrank, it only moves 1/8" or 7mm each way. The bending of the wire is non existent. I have actually found the other end where it attaches to the rudder moves much more.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I would like to make a suggestion. Maybe the moderators could move these posts on the twin rudder control out of the two plans threads and create a new thread. The information provided is valuable to be lost in these threads. It has also created a life of its own and is now off topic of posting plans. Just a suggestion.

Chris
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:46 AM
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United Kingdom, Tonbridge
Joined Oct 2011
190 Posts
Titch and Austin Whippet

From the July and August 1952 Aeromodellers here are two free flight planes at the different ends of the spectrum.

First up is Titch, a 30" sport free flighter designed by Ron Warring for engines up to 0.5cc. For me planes of this class are favourites and this design combines all the attributes one could wish for. Simple to build, rugged and good looking. Coming from the pen of Ron Warring you cab also guarantee excellent flying characteristics. Keep it free flight with i.c., put radio in it, make it electric, I reckon one for all of us to enjoy.

The other end of the spectrum is the Austin Whippet. This 32" span scale model by M. Garnett has been available for some time, the article has been posted on this web and made tracing is available on Outerzone, but I thought I would combine them all together. I hope nobody objects. The design was built around the Mills 0.75cc motor and features pendulum controls. Being a short nosed biplane it would offer a fascinating build and warrant extreme care when trimming. If I ever got round to building one 'Chicken' would come to mind and radio would be safely built in.

As ever with my tracings please take care if you decide to use them - there may be mistakes present and it is always better to measure twice and cut once. I will also be sending Steve from Outerzone the CAD drawings to host.

Enjoy.

Al
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:40 AM
Intermediate Multi
Trisquire's Avatar
Columbus, OH
Joined Mar 2005
3,259 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
Bellcranks do create slop in the control system and I feel slotting the crank would introduce even more slop. Looking at the diagram, one would worry about the swing arc of the bellcrank and binding of the wire in the hinge tube. Even now when I look at it, I think the same thing.
I measured the actual movement of the bellcrank on my Falcon. Where the ball link is located on the bellcrank, it only moves 1/8" or 7mm each way. The bending of the wire is non existent. I have actually found the other end where it attaches to the rudder moves much more.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I would like to make a suggestion. Maybe the moderators could move these posts on the twin rudder control out of the two plans threads and create a new thread. The information provided is valuable to be lost in these threads. It has also created a life of its own and is now off topic of posting plans. Just a suggestion.

Chris
Yeah. Now that I think about, my slot idea is not the best solution. People used bellcranks on ailerons for years. They just allowed enough clearance for the pushrod to move with the arc of the bellcranks. I would just mount a microservo in the tail. Maybe even two. One for each rudder.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:10 AM
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United Kingdom, England, Burnley
Joined Apr 2001
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Some of the horns with my little servos have an enlarged end - with two holes beside each other.
A single servo with a horn like that could be mounted within the boom and with pushrods driving both of the rudders equally... ?

Keven.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:16 AM
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Granby, CT, USA
Joined Jan 2001
939 Posts
twin rudders

I did a Beech 18 twin rudder setup, and used a bellcrank buried in the horizontal stabilizer driving two pushrods,1/32 wire takes the little bending it gets just fine. I ran the wires in tubes out to the rudders who had tiller arms running forward into the vertical stabilizers. Not much of a way to avoid exposing the tillers, but the eye, at least mine, isn't drawn to them and I think it's a tolerable bit of model-building applied to a model. And the Beech had empennage hingelines all in the same plane, so I would have had no opportunity to try out that ultra-slick idea of using the elevator hinge wire as a rudder pushrod, which requires that the rudder hinge be offset from the elevator by the distance the pushrod is offset from the rudder. But I can use it on my Twin Lizzie....
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Joined Dec 2012
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The Model Shop NUT Ltd

Gentlemen,

if I can be of assistance?

The Model Shop Newcastle Ltd, the Worlds first Model Shop, est'1924, Keelbuild was the trade name of our kits, and the plans were marketed as the MS plans range. I have all of Grandfather Lutman's plans safely stored away, original skins and later paper copies.

Lutman
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:07 PM
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Atlanta, GA USA
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Hello Lutman,

This is VERY interesting!!! Do I understand that you are offering copies of these plans to this thread . . . I hope!!!

Planeman
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:25 PM
Pencil grip
hoffboy's Avatar
Olympia, WA
Joined Feb 2008
1,223 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUTMAN CHARLES View Post
Gentlemen,

if I can be of assistance?

The Model Shop Newcastle Ltd, the Worlds first Model Shop, est'1924, Keelbuild was the trade name of our kits, and the plans were marketed as the MS plans range. I have all of Grandfather Lutman's plans safely stored away, original skins and later paper copies.

Lutman
I would gladly assist (at my expense) with digitizing etc. if you're proposing to make these plans publicly available.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:52 PM
Heads up...
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United States, VA, Stafford
Joined Jun 2009
744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogal View Post
The other end of the spectrum is the Austin Whippet. This 32" span scale model by M. Garnett has been available for some time, the article has been posted on this web and made tracing is available on Outerzone, but I thought I would combine them all together. I hope nobody objects. The design was built around the Mills 0.75cc motor and features pendulum controls. Being a short nosed biplane it would offer a fascinating build and warrant extreme care when trimming. If I ever got round to building one 'Chicken' would come to mind and radio would be safely built in.
Enjoy.

Al
I like the Austin Whippet. Going into the file bank for a later build. Thanks hogal
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:20 AM
Model Designer
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United Kingdom, England, Burnley
Joined Apr 2001
5,490 Posts
Hello Charles,

Your first post - welcome !
Is it simply to make we 'vintage modellers' aware of the plans that you have, or is it - as Rufus anticipated - that you are offering those plans to this thread... for free - as it were ?

If the latter, I too could assist with digitising plans - if that is what you have in mind... I've a 9600dpi scanner and I am in England.
A hundred miles from you - but not nearly so far as others !

Besides, I plan a visit to see the Turbinia in that there museum - when over visiting friends in Darlington...

If your post was to make us aware as to what you have - could you post a list with images and descriptions ?

Keven.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:55 AM
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Joined Dec 2012
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The Model Shop Newcastle Plans.

Gentlemen,
I have no problem with Grandfather's legacy continuing for no money.
Keven, I am not back in Northumberland until the end of January, time onshore unknown at this time. We can sort the details of a meet closer to the time. The only thing I insist on is that you scan the photograph of the Lutman Brother's Flying Machine, powered flight on Newcastle Town Moor before the Wright Brothers.
Regards
Charles Lutman
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:14 AM
Gaftopher
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Nottingham Road South Africa/Bedford UK
Joined Feb 2007
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All looks very interesting

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...2703-24977637/
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 02:09 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,518 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUTMAN CHARLES View Post
Gentlemen,
I have no problem with Grandfather's legacy continuing for no money.
Keven, I am not back in Northumberland until the end of January, time onshore unknown at this time. We can sort the details of a meet closer to the time. The only thing I insist on is that you scan the photograph of the Lutman Brother's Flying Machine, powered flight on Newcastle Town Moor before the Wright Brothers.
Regards
Charles Lutman
That's really good news and very generous - there are some really interesting and attractive designs in the MS plans range.
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