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Old Dec 09, 2009, 04:26 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
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I might look at you with furrowed brow if you are suggesting the IOM rules are "simple".

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Old Dec 09, 2009, 04:45 PM
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Blackpool, Lancs
Joined Feb 2006
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The point about the cost of items "all being the same or near enough" is probably only true in the US. The "I" stands for INTERNATIONAL. Some, probably many, other countries (i.e. not the US) have difficulties with what are still, to them, exotic materials. The idea of INTERNATIONAL rules is that all can play, as has been said, on an even field.
If anybody wants to increase their controls and use a radical design, make it 50" long. It will lead to disappointment, as there have been, and still are, some very good radical thinkers who are also very good skippers playing with Marbleheads. Of course, the sail area and mast height limitations might cause a bit of a problem......but them's the rules.
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Old Dec 09, 2009, 05:08 PM
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Sydney, Australia
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Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Larry,
I see you have been looking for a new hull to play with (ARYA), whats wrong with the noux?

Mike
Mike --- Oi Oi Oi! Aussie!

getting away from an apparently esoteric debate about changing rules which wont change.... let's talk about IOMs. Tis true the Australians make the best IOMs in the world. Since no-one in Australia works we have plenty of spare time to play with toys. Plus we have an excess of sunshine and water. It's also an excuse to hide from the Missus in the garage whilst tinkering. Just in my area I have 3 IOM racing clubs within a 45 minute drive. GLX (in Ireland) posted that he only knows of 3 IOM owners in the whole of Ireland .
Mike - why am I looking for a new IOM hull to play with (my ARYA ad). It's because I'm curious to see if the newer hull designs are that much better than my old Noux2 (which still has wet paint). And how did you know that was my ad???? Is this stalking?
In favour of the aged --At the IOM races last week the winning skipper was about 100 yrs old and had a boat with what looked like 'clear shower curtain' sails. His boat needed some paint and looked about 10 years old. But he could sail like the dickens and his boat handled like a robot. Didn't miss a beat. Not the fastest boat but the most well behaved. As an aside; I don't think a third servo would have made any difference. His boat was tuned perfectly and sailed the smoothest around the course. There were about 12 boats racing. He'd started with the vane boats last century.

Segue --- glad we now have an IOM thread . Somewhere where I can ask stupid IOM questions and might get an answer from true IOM aficionados.

First stupid question
- what's the best colour for an IOM? Seriously; when racing, and the boat's far away, what is the best colours to tell where the boat is headed? Or is that just me going blind.

Larrykin aka Larry L.
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Old Dec 09, 2009, 05:41 PM
k4s
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391 Posts
Colours are interesting alright.
Have fooled around with lots,ranging from white thru to day glow orange.The Orange and yellow were the easiest to see at a distance.
Currently I have a grey hull and white decks which surprisingly is really easy as well.
Personally I think a distinct waterline of contrasting colour is the best thing for letting you know what the boat is actually up to on the other side of the lake.Really helps to have a visual gauge as to heel angles etc.
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Old Dec 09, 2009, 07:43 PM
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Perth Western Australia
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K4s, I can't agree more, "If it ain't broke don't fix it" I have an old TS-2 Clone and can still hold my own (sometimes) against a Mad Max we have in the club (well that was 4 weeks ago he know has a new rig and from what i heard the only way i will keep up is if he has a 120 second handicap), my boat cost me AUS$500 and i have spent the same on trying to make if faster and it has worked to a degree. If the rules open up to extra servos and Carbon fibre it will make it harder for the guys like myself who are on a budget (only because of the War Department) to keep up.

Larry, Not stalking but must visit the same site's always watching for a bargin, like ARYA and Ebay (think i have seen you there too).

As for colours can't agree more with K4s again my boat is deep red but with a white cockpit helps with seeing the boat heal and if there is a knock, but I watch the sails more being high up they will tell you if you are to hit a knock.

And as pchicken said on the other thread my TS-2 Clone is s#@% down wind and in light breeze, but what i lose on the down wind leg (always having to cover other boats) I make up for to windward because i seam to point alot better.

This is great started this thread late last night and know look.

Mike
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 01:41 AM
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Sydney, Australia
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 02:26 AM
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Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
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Nothing wrong with building, there are two guys in our club that build boats and they do very well sometimes even win the day, it come's down to the design, the noux has had some good results in Europe and Michael Schammer ( i think that is how his name is spelt) i think won a national event and he makes every thing ply booms, glass over balsa.

I saw you mentioned the Reggaein another thread, not being seen watch the nationals coming up there is on there
http://www.nats2010.saradioyachting....s/Entrants.htm
and here is an earlier result for Owen Jarvis, am assuming it is the Reggae by the sail number
http://www.rcyachts.net/nsw/results/...%20Results.pdf

Mike
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 03:17 AM
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 03:17 AM
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I fully accept the Australian yachts are probably the best that money can buy. Are they the best boats? not in my opinion, the sails are going forward but the Hulls are being forced backwards.
Can a 30 year old boat beat a 2009 boat? yes, there has been nothing fundamentally new in 30 years.
The best colour for a boat? it doesn't matter, the hull should be invisible, if you are racing you should be looking at your sails, your competitor's sails and anything that indicates a wind shift. Every time you look at your hull can lose at least 2 boat lengths to your competition. That often doesn't matter until you come up against competitors who don't spend the race admiring their paintwork.
You can fly Aerobatics in an areoplane with just Rudder and Elevator; loops rolls and stall turns and any routine which is a combination of the basics. but until you add ailerons the flying will lack precision and look ugly. Same with IOM. You only have to look at the transom wake of a boat to know whether it is being sailed or being forced.

With regards to the IOM sailors not posting, I was quite looking forward to the discussion, hiding behind the "Those who know don't teach" doesn't wash with me. Why join a discussion group and then hide from discussion about the subject? Surely they are not here just to boast how much they have spent on the the very latest must have.


I will dig out a boat I designed and built in 1978, lets see how far this class has come since 1990? (ish). I would be grateful if someone can let me know when IOM came into existance.
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 04:09 AM
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larrykin's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert May View Post
I fully accept the Australian yachts are probably the best that money can buy.....
Can a 30 year old boat beat a 2009 boat? yes, there has been nothing fundamentally new in 30 years.
With regards to the IOM sailors not posting, I was quite looking forward to the discussion, hiding behind the "Those who know don't teach" doesn't wash with me. Why join a discussion group and then hide from discussion about the subject? Surely they are not here just to boast how much they have spent on the the very latest must have.
Mr. May, I salute you. I love the fact that from nowhere we suddenly have a thread which people care about. To get to the stage where you are sailing an IOM you are obviously committed to RC sailing in a big way. IOMs are for racing. What can be more convivial than meeting with like minded fanatics to discuss the size of their new kicker, topping lift or 'cunni's' (cunningham). It's joyous in a secret language that only 'old salts' and 'computer nerds' share. (Just ask me my RAM size.)
But back to being serious. Getting info about IOMs isn't that easy. "Those who teach don't know". I spent ages just trying to work out why everyone I talked to hated IOM sailors. Like I said before, I was told that "anyone with an IOM is a rich wanker". I can see the belief for that now. Guys (no women sail RC yachts) I've talked to have boats on order. (12 month min. wait) for $2,600 for a basic boat and A rig. And they say that's a bargain. This is for Australian made boats. My first car cost me $400 . My IOM will end up costing me about $250 + including servos. And the mold an extra $50. Having built a few boats I have most stuff left over, including electrics. So to build a boat for me is cheap. Means I'm not a rich wanker. In fact I'm a tight wad and scream at pulley blocks costing $20 each. I make my own for 5c.
I've totally lost why I'm posting this. Oh - remember now. Below are some diagrams I did from information I read on another IOM post. The bookmark for which I cannot find.
Anyhow - drawings are meant for me. If you find glaring errors please comment. Some of the stuff was info from previuos world champions on how they tune their IOMs. Mainly I was trying to work out what mast rams do and how this affects weather helm. I find it fascinating......................

Larry L
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 04:26 AM
k4s
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Joined Aug 2009
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Not so sure hulls are being forced anywhere.New boats are appearing all the time so there must be some forward thinking going on at least.
Sure a 30 year old boat can beat a 2009 boat...however a 2009 boat can also beat a 30 year old...kinda proves a point I would have thought.
If you dont look at the way your boat is sitting in the water,moving thru chop,turning at marks you will lose at least 2 boat lengths to the opposition...as valid as the converse ...maybe looking at the whole picture is the way to go you would think.
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 04:46 AM
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chamm37's Avatar
Deception Bay
Joined Jun 2008
637 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrykin View Post
Mike,
the Reggea or Reggae is the name. Only because young Chris on another post (Emo build) bought the plans. I love the fact he is now posting on how to make a mold for fibreglassing, never having built a boat that has sailed .

Thing with me is I enjoy building. I raced for the first time last week. Came last of course but that could have been.... list is too long. In 2 weeks I'll have a much better boat. But I can build a new USOM in 2 weeks. Wish there were more buyers. Yes that is me on ebay. Below is a YouTube of my first USOM sailing. Sold for $500. I now have 4 boats all of which are for sale. I need space to build more. The moulds (male) are for sale as well.

Larry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxyfeuK4suc
Yes well that is very true my friend but like i have said in the past i have made moulds before, maybe not sailboats but i have made them before and know how to do it i think lol hahahahaha
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 05:04 AM
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Joined Dec 2009
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Hi Again,

Larry to have some experienced IOM skippers offer you information here may I suggest not conveying your first told thoughts of "IOM sailors are W.....s". It just may be that those you spoke with are in the minority and could be considered in the same light by skippers of one of the largest International classes.
Proffesionally built boats come at a price! A home build can always be done on the cheap and that is the beauty of the class. Both can compete together and have their moment in the sun. As with full size sailing the amount of people building their own has diminished incredibly over the years.
Cheap kits can be built to the widget design as offered by the builder in the UK for around 200gbp for hull/deck, all the inside mouldings, fin ,rudder and lead. Pretty good value as it has won the 2007 worlds, runner up in 09 and won 2 of the last 3 uk nationals. It can be finished and on the water for cheaper than the latest professionally equiped uk micro magic carrying 6 carbon rigs that is the euro champion so who is too expensive? And they promote that class as the cheap entry level?

Plenty of girls racing in the uk and some also in aus I notice.

Super low TS2 rig = It was nearly 2" lower by being down in a cockpit than the rigs set on a flat deck. A massive difference in stability at the top end of a rig wind range.

Robert
The call for 3 servos is unwarranted and just sounds like an excuse. The good well set up IOMs sail just fine in hands free mode. The guys at the top of the uk fleet are always willing to give up their time for rig tuning seminars and help out newcomers of all levels of skill. The A Class, 10 Rater and Marblehead class all allow for extra servos than the basic 2, yet we notice all the winning boats only carry 2. Why? Because they are easier to race, concentrate on the course and other boats around you.

Colour of boat= bright colours, Yellow, orange ,red. Anything less on an overcast day gets lost at distance. As it is the hull that rounds a course mark, you do indeed look at it.

p
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 05:23 AM
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Sydney, Australia
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Old Dec 10, 2009, 05:25 AM
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8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,107 Posts
Larry,

Look at the first link i posted about the nationals, two ladies from Tasmainia Lisa and Cassie, mate they would kick my a@# and Lisa competed in the recent worlds and did well and Cassie is doing very well and quite offen wins a day here and there.
The best place to learn how to really set up an IOM is at a club, the first day I went down to my local club I was just looking for something to do during the winter while the big boats i race were out of season, the guys put the TX in my hands between races and 3 weeks later bought my current boat and joined in, I am going ok by my reckoning and these guys will still bend over backwards to help you set up your boat even when you are beating them. I have yet to meet one non helpful skipper.
As for the Aussie boats being the best well they are (I am being biased as I am an Aussie) but hold on didn't a European boat just win the worlds. So who does make the fasted hulls?

Mike
AUS 669
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