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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:25 AM
Smoke & Fire
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United States, TN, Maryville
Joined Jun 2001
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Crazy, again your not paying attention. He said his relatives "will pay" that rate after the end of the month. The clinton rates they want back are 39%. Try to keep up will ya.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
Are you saying Forbes is lying when they referenced the IRS?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybui...irs-tax-rates/


What tax bracket is higher than "over $388k"?

If you're going to try to pass off information as fact, be prepared to defend the veracity of your claims. It's not my fault that you're posting BS. It's also clear that you don't understand how marginal taxation works because you're posting as if that 35% applies to ALL income instead of the margin of income (hence "marginal"). Perhaps you should "do a little more research" yourself and read how effective tax rates are not the same as marginal tax rates.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 08:32 AM
Figure Nine Champ
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North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
If you think you can just add "3-4% to 35%" to get the effective tax rate then you're wrong, and you're doing Republican math.
If you're talking percentage of the same amount, like from the income being discussed, the percentages do add.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:58 AM
Registered User
New Jersey, USA
Joined May 2003
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A 5 day car rental in CA was $272.00. Add to that taxes and surcharges of $91.39 for a total of $363.39. As I'm a tourist in the country of CA, I pay a tourism fee of 2.85%.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:15 AM
whiirrrrrr
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined Nov 2011
785 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
If you're talking percentage of the same amount, like from the income being discussed, the percentages do add.
Don't confuse the issue with facts
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:54 AM
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so. cal.
Joined Jan 2006
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I just realized that C L is from the San Fran area, so we should ease up, after all Madam Pelosi is from there, great town to visit but maybe it is a residual Haight Ashbury effect if you stay more than a week or two, I had an old girlfriend that moved there awhile back, she seemed perfectly normal until she lived in the city for a few years, after that time she hasn't been able to have normal a relationship with anyone since.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:34 AM
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United States, OH, Brilliant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
If you're talking percentage of the same amount, like from the income being discussed, the percentages do add.
A marginal tax rate is not a "percentage of the same amount" as an effective tax rate.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:42 AM
Figure Nine Champ
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North Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
A marginal tax rate is not a "percentage of the same amount" as an effective tax rate.
If that's the rate that his relatives will pay, which is what I understand to be claimed, then it's all effective, right?

From the OP, I understand their tax rate to be all taxes.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:58 AM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Joined Jul 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
A marginal tax rate is not a "percentage of the same amount" as an effective tax rate.
Obviously he is talking about the marginal rate on their top dollars - he is using the word "effective" in this case to aggregate all of the different taxes on those dollars - state, federal, local, SSI, 'caids, etc.

You are correct that the common usage of "effective" when discussing taxes is to look at the overall rate considering all the embedded progressive levels - but that hardly negates his point that at these levels, the .gov will be getting more of the gain than they will.

perhaps he should have said - with all of the various taxes added up - they are going to be effectively paying 57% on some of their income.

I would actually think that for someone in a high tax local part of CA, the total could be even higher than that ?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:25 PM
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United States, OH, Brilliant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radix2 View Post
perhaps he should have said - with all of the various taxes added up - they are going to be effectively paying 57% on some of their income.

I would actually think that for someone in a high tax local part of CA, the total could be even higher than that ?
That's why I said, "show us the math" because with state and federal taxes' top marginal rates at 35% the effective tax rate is going to be less than 35%. Payroll taxes are much lower than income tax rates, and the largest payroll tax (SSI) only taxes the first $106,800 of income.

So again I say that a 57% effective income tax rate is impossible.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:55 PM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Joined Jul 2000
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Assume Obama gets his way on Bush tax cut for 250K+

fed income tax - 39.5% (>400K)
state income tax - 12.3% (>500K)
FICA hi - 1.45%

I get 53.25%

Now spend those same dollars in LA buying some nice RC junk (+9.75% sales tax)

and your buying power is down to 37% (63% gone to taxes...)
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:02 PM
LcJ
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United States, LA, Monroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Ira View Post
The OP misses the point.
10%? 30%? 57%?
Getting how much is "enough" from the liberal left is like trying to nail water to a wall....because it is never enough until it is all under the control of and allocated by the state.
100% + all your personal wealth would be enough for one year for the left. From then on, there is nothing and it has fulfilled the "Dreams" of those who would see US fail.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:08 PM
LcJ
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United States, LA, Monroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
That's why I said, "show us the math" because with state and federal taxes' top marginal rates at 35% the effective tax rate is going to be less than 35%. Payroll taxes are much lower than income tax rates, and the largest payroll tax (SSI) only taxes the first $106,800 of income.

So again I say that a 57% effective income tax rate is impossible.
When someone says effective income tax that includes all moneys taken by the various governments at every level from the total earned income of the family. What you are saying and what you are trying to say are two different things. What you are trying to say is the total Federal as State income taxes are limited to the Maximum State Income Tax Charges and the Maximum Federal Income Tax Charged against your total earned income. Those are two totally different talking points.

The devil is always in the details.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:10 PM
LcJ
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Now we just have to wait to see how much of the employers' contributions to our health insurance will be declared as "earned income".
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
So again I say that a 57% effective income tax rate is impossible.
If you're correct and, let's say, the tax rate is only 45%, or even 35%, what exactly are people getting for their money? Just curious what you think that is and also what you think a fair percentage would be.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:35 PM
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United States, OH, Brilliant
Joined Sep 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fokker Ace View Post
what exactly are people getting for their money?
Everything that makes the USA the greatest nation on earth: Clean water, safe food, safe effective medicine, police/fire/ems, rule of law, an educated workforce, system of currency that's fungible across the entire US (and pretty much entire world), telecommunications systems that actually work, economic system that lets you work without having to bribe the local government official, or pay "protection money" to the local warlord, etc.

Summed up it could read something like this:
Quote:
I am an American conservative -heel

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.
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