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Old Apr 09, 2014, 01:31 AM
Master of Micro Modding
valiantGLX's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
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nCPX Brushless Conversion

Whoo Hoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I finally got it done





1s Brushless Ultra Micro P-51D Mustang with AS3X (nCPX BL Inrunner) (2 min 59 sec)



It was a fairly stress free install over all and I didn't even need to remove the gear box. The old motor slid out and the new BL motor slid right in after carefully shimming it with tape (from 8mm to 8.5mm).



I had some nano connectors laying around which were a perfect mate for the BL motors stock connector, BONUS



I did a full custom wire job on my XP-7a esc, including adding the right connectors where necessary and soldering the RX directly to the ESC





Also you will see in the vid that there are no risks involved with mixing throttle to the flaps channel and plugging a standalone ESC into the flap output.



With the ESC it can run 1s or 2s, but I would need to add a diode to the BECs positive output to keep the RX running at safe voltages. So far I think it might work on 2s in moderation, initial tests show the motor stays cool during static full throttle operation on 1s which is a very good sign

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Last edited by valiantGLX; Apr 09, 2014 at 01:41 AM.
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 11:42 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
I disagree!!! Mine balances out very well with the battery all the way forwards, I can turn my AS3X on and off during flight too and it still flies great.

I hit LVC pretty high up the other day, so I pointed it into the light breeze and glided it in for a perfect soft landing. Also with the 250mah 1s Eflite 20c I got 13.5 mins of mixed throttle air time before hitting LVC.

I wouldn't have the CG any other way
It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, but realizing that there are significant differences in these little planes when they come out of the box. There have been several people on this thread who complained their Mustang was always wanting to nose up. My point is that if you have one of those, the answer is to move the CG instead of trying to fix it with elevator trim.

Using a 250 where a 150 is called for is another solution, as you have found. I have also used 250's in these planes, since I had a bunch of them kicking around from the MCPx. I like your brushless conversion idea, and please keep us posted about the performance of this little motor. It's not exactly cheap, but there are a lot of planes out there that could benefit from that mod.
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 12:29 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
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United States, VA, Roanoke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Whoo Hoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I finally got it done





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWb4yJhoAWA



It was a fairly stress free install over all and I didn't even need to remove the gear box. The old motor slid out and the new BL motor slid right in after carefully shimming it with tape (from 8mm to 8.5mm).



I had some nano connectors laying around which were a perfect mate for the BL motors stock connector, BONUS



I did a full custom wire job on my XP-7a esc, including adding the right connectors where necessary and soldering the RX directly to the ESC





Also you will see in the vid that there are no risks involved with mixing throttle to the flaps channel and plugging a standalone ESC into the flap output.



With the ESC it can run 1s or 2s, but I would need to add a diode to the BECs positive output to keep the RX running at safe voltages. So far I think it might work on 2s in moderation, initial tests show the motor stays cool during static full throttle operation on 1s which is a very good sign

Um - hello! You forgot the most important part . . . .

HOW DOES SHE FLY??
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 02:15 PM
ITS ME DAVID's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Arthure View Post
Thanks found it on eBay for 2.99 shipped
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 02:37 PM
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ref. Also you will see in the vid that there are no risks involved with mixing throttle to the flaps channel and plugging a standalone ESC into the flap output.

Having done a dozen or so brushless conversions to UM boards with brushed motors, I wanted to add a general upgrade suggestion.

You can easily tap the throttle output from the brushed RX board rather than mix to channel 5 or 6. (In my case I am usually using those channels for something else.)

Basically any brushed-board with the three pin outlet to the motor can drive a brushless motor.

Not, as may have tried, by simply plugging in the three brushless wires to a motor, but by using the throttle channel to drive a brushless ESC, which in turn drives a brushless motor.

You need to look in the manual and use the stick position method to command the the throttle output to be brushless. Once that is done you have a few options.

Normally I do not use the +ve output from the RX throttle to the ESC, (but you can). This lets me use bigger batteries for the Brushless motors - usually 2S . The -ve is always common to all. (If you leave the +ve connected you don't need to use the board battery hook-up

Quite often I fly with 1S on the RX and 2S on the motor(s).

I currently have brushless motors and brushless ESC upgrades on UM , T-28, P-51, Champ, Saber, Mig.

In addition, when I "play" with a multi-motor configuration, I can drive more than one brushed or brushless ESC from one UM board. [The brushless boards often overload detect and cut out, so I also add external ESCs to them, but that is a little bit different from upgrading a brushed-board to an external ESC - brushed or brushless!]

I would add that when I go for twin or four motor power thrust vectoring I will use a Channel-6 mix to a second motor.

This is just another way to use our great little boards.

Eric.
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 03:58 PM
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Nice brushless conversion
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 04:17 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Originally Posted by whichwaysup View Post
Um - hello! You forgot the most important part . . . .

HOW DOES SHE FLY??
Usually it wouldn't be an issue to toss it in the air at any given time living in outback Australia, but it has constantly been raining for going on 3 days straight Mother nature obviously doesn't want me chopping up the air with my 1s prop blades of fury
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 04:22 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Henderson View Post

You can easily tap the throttle output from the brushed RX board rather than mix to channel 5 or 6. (In my case I am usually using those channels for something else.)

Basically any brushed-board with the three pin outlet to the motor can drive a brushless motor.
Not with the 1s AS3X bricks Unfortunately with the AS3X than ran out of built in memory to add the brushless signal as well, or so the story goes. Regardless of the story it doesn't work, I have tried. Also it doesn't work on the Mosquito receiver with the 2 brushed ecs either.
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 05:02 AM
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The rain stopped for a few moments. Here's a cheeky maiden:

Ultra Micro P51D Mustang 1s nCPX Brushless - Maiden Flight (1 min 14 sec)
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Not with the 1s AS3X bricks Unfortunately with the AS3X than ran out of built in memory to add the brushless signal as well, or so the story goes. Regardless of the story it doesn't work, I have tried. Also it doesn't work on the Mosquito receiver with the 2 brushed ecs either.
Good points. Thanks for the heads up.

I have not done it with a 1S AS3X brick. I have done it with 1S none-AS3X boards. The whole UM board family all vary a little, so it was a bit inaccurate of me to generalize. Best to look at your own board before you start.

I tend to use the 2S AS3X boards when I need a bigger or better AS3X external ESC - brushless or brushed upgrade. When you say the 1S AS3X brick, I am taking it to mean the one with no servos on the board?

Here is a really detailed video that I used to learn how to do an external ESC by tapping the throttle signal before it goes into its own integral ESC.

1:1MIG15 - How to add an external ESC to your MIG (47 min 0 sec)


This guy did a good job of laying it all out for an expert or a rookie - including showing us all how to successfully solder!

You can skip to 26-32 minutes to see where he tapped off the board for the throttle signal only and completely bi-passed the ESC in the board.

FYI - I never tried adding external ESCs to the Mosquito board. In my Mosquito I dispensed with their original board and drove two external ESCs with Channels 5 and 6. This let me dump the crappy-always-failing-motors and fit my own.

Also, the two motors were mixed with the rudder to get differential motor thrust. This gave me some pretty cool ground handling and powerful knife-edge.

I used to see Mosquitoes turn a 180 with one wheel standing still. Having independent motor control let me emulate this maneuver. The thrust-differential mixes were on/off switchable.

One neat capability with this set-up (and in any twin ) is that I also added trims to each motor so was able to dial her to fly straight with a neutral rudder setting. It also gave me individual throttle curve capability. In addition you could do a pretty flat turn in the gym

Regards,

Eric.
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 09:26 PM
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Joined Sep 2005
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I just picked up the UMX P51D and maidened it yesterday. I can tell I'm going to love this little plane... I hate to ask but seeing as there are 128 pages of information now, is there any "absolute" mods that need to be done? I realized that the stang really needs a little rudder in the slow corners. Any other characteristics to be aware of? I only got a short flight in due to the wind finally dying down right at sundown.

Thanks!
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 02:52 AM
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Thanks for the video Eric, looks like a great option
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Old Today, 10:37 AM
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After a crash...or ten...my stang was AOG.



Got spare wing, tails, fuselage, and motor/mount all swapped in this morning. Good as new!



Moved the tail wheel forward so I don't rip this rudder half off again. Also tried inserting toothpicks into the forward fuselage, as I saw another user had done on V1 UMX P-51. Looking forward to flying again.
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Old Today, 01:07 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenelestate View Post
After a crash...or ten...my stang was AOG.



Got spare wing, tails, fuselage, and motor/mount all swapped in this morning. Good as new!



Moved the tail wheel forward so I don't rip this rudder half off again. Also tried inserting toothpicks into the forward fuselage, as I saw another user had done on V1 UMX P-51. Looking forward to flying again.

That's a great feeling, isn't it?? I've rebuilt more of my micros that way and love the fact that HH makes that possible. I often buy used, slightly torn up airplanes to learn on, and once I get to a point where I decide I like it enough to keep, I make it brand new and keep it that way. The rest I'll sell again for a little less than what I bought them for!
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Old Today, 01:31 PM
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Joined Feb 2014
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My buddy is a Flight Test Engineer, he prefers to mod and incrementally test. I'm a mechanic, so I am more apt to glue/tape and toss it in the air and see if you can keep it flying. See above for results
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