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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:30 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
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I just noticed that you are training on the sim with the Habu...Not the same as the MiG...The Habu has a "straight fin" vertical stab...This stab has almost zero, if any, roll input...This is very desireable for point manuevers/knife edge flight as there is virtually no roll coupling with rudder input...

The MiG has a swept vertical stab--This style of stab allows for more roll coupling when using the rudder...Very bad for precision flying/point rolls but great for scale...

Find a sim that has either the MiG 15 programming or an F-86 program...This will allow for a more realistic sim training experience---Complete with roll coupling of the rudder...

Kevin
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:20 AM
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Vad, it seems you do not spend enough time flying this thing

You have alot of tinkering energy and not enough flying time it seems. Something i learned about tinkering, always fly the snot of your rtf bird before you mod!
This thing needs no help slowing down, it needs no help with differential or different servos, i have ALOT of planes, all from HH, and only a few came from HH with performance that was perfect and needed nothing else, the Mig is one of them.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
Ohhh...I honestly can say you have a LOT to learn if Hobby King is your "go to" place for ducted fans......

For your first plane I have to say that you've bitten off quite a big chunk.
Well, where then? Or precisely, where can I get DF planes this size and smaller?
I know, I was never into planes but this one looked so amazing with all the scale features that I couldn't resist.
I think in many ways it was a good choice. It's impressive what kind of abuse it can take as long as you have one of those nose caps. (Don't worry, I flew trainers o the sim)

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You say that you have extensive heli experience..
Well it's not the same. A heli with no tail is a dead heli. The mig can do pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
I just noticed that you are training on the sim with the Habu...Not the same as the MiG...The Habu has a "straight fin" vertical stab...This stab has almost zero, if any, roll input...This is very desireable for point manuevers/knife edge flight
The MiG has a swept vertical stab--This style of stab allows for more roll coupling when using the rudder...Very bad for precision flying
Well that's a thing I really tried to do with the habu and boy did I fail... so many times I wouldn't try it on the mig.
I flew the habu with ails turned completely off to force myself to use rudder but I just don't see it happening. I know only bad pilots yank and bank all the time.

Well I do need precise turns, I know what I'm saying, last time I played rudder I had to fish it out of a tree. The woods, they're a few feet behind me when I fly.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
Find a sim that has either the MiG 15 programming or an F-86 program.
Tell that to Phoenix. They're supposed to be the official HH sim...

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Originally Posted by airpower View Post
it seems you do not spend enough time flying this thing
You have alot of tinkering energy and not enough flying time it seems.
It's true, but considering the weather outside, I have a lot of ambition
My plane is hardly stock anymore, there's no part on it I haven't broken and the elevators have been re-re-re-reinforced. It's a flying painted CA blob.

I finished my mod, ben heck style, by making a 3-point switch out of a micro linear servo I had lying around.
Stick left causes brakes to deploy, I can't use a mix unfortunately, because the time it takes for the servo travel and switch, induces a lag. So, first switch, than brake.

Point is, it works good enough to test the concept and see if this is worth pursuing.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Wait what? Im sorry Vad, tinkering is great, but that modification wont be of value, i mean good luck, but there's no point. You'll lose much more than you can gain. The Mig has no problem stopping and at slower speeds the control surface braking will do almost nothing. And youll increase rate, complexity, and lose control.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vadimpelau View Post
Well then you're not visiting hobbyking very often. There's hardly any 30mm or 40mm jets with ruder control except this mig and the GP sabre. As for trainers? What trainers? Ain't nobody got time for that and there's not that many people flying in the area where I live.......
You're right. I don't visit HK very often. I tend to buy my RC gear from manufacturers that place top-notch engineering, product quality, and product longevity at the top of their priority list.

I know there aren't many jets in this scale with rudders. That's precisely why I was interested in the MiG! I do not enjoy flying without yaw-control. But you stated that "Most planes this size and larger come without a rudder." That is simply not true. If you think HK is the go-to place for high-quality scale jets, you need to broaden your horizon a bit. A quick web search turns up many 64mm & larger EDFs that have full 4-channel control.

You said that nobody has time for training? That is certainly not true in most places. The majority of the pilots I've flown with over the years were taught by a club instructor, local RCer, friend, or family member. Some of the clubs around here are so busy training newcomers that they sometimes have to get on a waiting list.

I see that you have an organization in Romania called the Romanian Modelling Federation
that is similar to our AMA in the US. It appears that you have a fairly active RC hobby over there, as well - including instructors and national/international competitors. Have you looked for affiliated clubs in your area?

Joel
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:00 PM
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youll increase rate, complexity, and lose control.
Well that describes today's first landing, and the second one
Might have enabled the breaks too late, either way switch + stick input doesn't work.
Need some electronic switches to get rid of the delay and use the gear switch alone.


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You said that nobody has time for training? That is certainly not true in most places. [FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial]
Well our AMA doesn't have too much, if any authority and if I hear right (considering your AMA) that's not such a bad thing.
Don't know how things go in the capital since they're located there but they don't even list the club I subscribed to about 6 years ago and I do live in the second largest city.
I do know one of the "clubs" they list and that's mainly for kids, scratch built sailplanes and nothing electrical.

Anyway I received some help then, but don't imagine it was anything organized. Called some guy, he agreed to meet, showed me the basics on my heli and that was about it. Also, as I said before I don't visit the local airfield, which is an actual abandoned airfield on the outskirts/if not outside the city. I live 5 minutes away from a park/forest that is large enough for me alone.

Also you underestimate the preconceptions these people have:
Size:
Blade 130X and below = mall toys
0.6-0.5M and below wingspan = mall toys

Radios:
Futaba only, spektrum = crap (up to dsmx I must agree)

Brands:
Robbe, Graupner rule the universe (overrated overpriced expensive crap and some decent products imho)
If it's german, it's holy.
Spektrum: crap/yay I have a cheap "brand" tx!
Hobbyking, awesome! Did you spend 160$ on an E-flite mig when you could have gotten THE EXACT SAME THING for 80 bucks on HK??? idiot

Technology:
AS3X, bull**. Micro planes don't fly in wind [period].
AS3X? What is it, never heard of it. Probably marketing bu**.

BnF/RTF
You didn't even have to assemble it? Mall toy.

This is what you will get on the forums from the most of the veterans in this hobby that started with 1 channel tx-es.
Now put yourself in my shoes and show up on the local airfield with your nice spektrum transmitter and your 30mm edf.
One does not simply buy an Eflite mig 15 edf in my country, when with that money he could have gotten a plane 3 times that size.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:06 PM
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Vad, dont mean to be rude, its interesting to hear about how it is over where you are, but you need to stop denying everything we say, it seems youre going out of your way almost.

Also dont mean to be rude, but saying no one has time for training is bull. If someone wants to get in this hobby and skip learning how to fly, this is not the hobby for them. Also, some of the most enjoyable planes are the easiest to fly.

Just try to refine your skills a bit, give a little rudder when you initiate a turn with ailerons and rudder, practice a lot of rudder at slower speeds for flatter turns, how you can use it to line up on the runway, do circuits very low and slow, make mock landing passes five or ten feet off the runway, things like that. Also, what other planes do you have? The Mig is not the best plane to practice things on!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:35 PM
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Vadimpelau,

Our AMA does a lot of good stuff. The RC hobby over here owes a lot to the organization. Many clubs in the US wouldn't even have a field if it wasn't for the AMA. They actively promote model aviation in schools, to the public, to the government, and to the full-scale aviation community. Of course - like all bureaucratic entities, they can't please everyone all the time, and they make a bad decision on occasion. I gladly pay my annual dues!

Regarding your opinion of seasoned RC pilots who fly larger aircraft - I think you are the one with the preconceptions about us. What you describe is the polar opposite of my experience over my 28 years of flying RC. The vast majority of seasoned club members are friendly, helpful folks who believe that if it's RC, it's cool - regardless of scale. Being that I came to UMs from the large & giant-scale side of this hobby, I've flown with many large & giant-scale pilots over the years. In fact, most of the guys I fly with today are into giant-scale gassers. Not a single one of them looks down at the UM side of this hobby. Many of them also fly UMs at indoor flying spots during the winter. All of them are amazed at what the Beast 3D can do. When I take it up in 20-25 MPH winds and do stationary aerobatics & huge loops while the gassers are grounded, they all pay attention. I've had many giant-scale guys ask about the stabilization system. I let some of them fly my Beast 3D. They were amazed at how big it flew, and wanted to know where they could buy one. I know a fair number of large-scale competition pilots who use planes like the Beast 3D & Sbach for practicing their aerobatic routines.

As AP noted - you ask for our advice & help, but then you argue everything we suggest and make excuses why it won't work for you. We're not here to give you the answer you wish to hear. Rather, we tell it like it is. If you behaved the same way toward local club members as you do on here, then it is no surprise that you had a bad experience. A bit of introspection is in order, I believe.

Joel
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:41 PM
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Ohhh---AS3X is crap and all of the other things you stated couldn't be further than the truth...I, too, have flown everything from turbines to giant scale 111cc planes and this AS3X system is the real deal!!!...I got rid of all of my larger planes and fly nothing but electric now...With my HH AS3X planes getting most of the flying time now...

I don't know where all the negativity comes from in your country but the AMA and help here in the USA is the best thing since sliced bread...It's not perfect but very close!!!

I wish you luck with your plane...Nothing will replace stick time...I figured that with your heli experience you would understand how important the rudder is/can be to airplane flight...True, many small planes don't have a rudder but this is a gross admission to full 3 axis flying...Many of us add a rudder to these planes to make them "complete"!!!

Kevin
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:04 PM
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I've been following this back and forth. Bottom line spoilerons/flaperons on the Mig are not a good idea. If you really want to do something add functional airbrakes with a linear servo. That would be neat, completely unnecessary but cool looking.

The Mig slows down very nicely. Here is what you should do. Instead of spending all this time adding complex systems. Fly the plane, but spend the entire flight doing landings or approaches. If you fly for 4 min doing nothing but patterns with approaches your landing that flight should be spot on. Also get used to flying the mig slow with the nose up and power on. It really is very stable.

-Brian
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:27 PM
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I've been following this back and forth. Bottom line spoilerons/flaperons on the Mig are not a good idea. If you really want to do something add functional airbrakes with a linear servo. That would be neat, completely unnecessary but cool looking.

The Mig slows down very nicely. Here is what you should do. Instead of spending all this time adding complex systems. Fly the plane, but spend the entire flight doing landings or approaches. If you fly for 4 min doing nothing but patterns with approaches your landing that flight should be spot on. Also get used to flying the mig slow with the nose up and power on. It really is very stable.

-Brian
+1 Ditto!!!

Kevin
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:55 AM
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airpower, turboparker, kevin
You must realize I live in a way smaller city/country than you. We do have annual modelling events with people from all around the country and I must tell you, for some those will look like just another day at the airfield. Not that many people fly over here and this hobby isn't at all that widespread.
There are no UMX pilots in my city, there is no UMX thread on our largest forum, the only thing there is, is a UMX beast on sale since September.
Then, again I must tell you, nobody would take me seriously with a plane this size, not to mention it is indeed not the right way to start aero.

I do it for fun and not for proficiency and I probably won't buy another plane any time soon. if I will it will have to be another superb looking scale micro edf with as3x

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If you really want to do something add functional airbrakes with a linear servo. That would be neat, completely unnecessary but cool looking.
Well then, how have you imagined it? My fuselage needs to be changed soon anyway and the weather isn't too kind either. So, plenty of time for tinkering!
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:14 AM
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The largest trouble ive had with perceptions on small planes is people who arent in the hobby, in my personal experience. Fliers in the hobby see that they fly just as well as anyother plane. Its people that arent in hobby(atleast in my area/experience) that think a small plane means its a thirty dollar plane from wallmart. Not critisizing( sorry about spelling I have a writing disability) just comparing my experience with yours. This is the newest and fastest expanding area of the hobby, so we have the difficulties any new group would.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 04:06 AM
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Worst experience was at the local hobby store (mostly auto oriented, but has certain heli parts) when I asked about mcpx parts.
-What's that?
-Tiny 3D heli, about this big
-[contemptuously and bored] Never heard about any of that mPcx thing you're talking about.

It's not as much that they'll see it as a toy, it's more the the contempt for the size, 'cause you know "bigger is always better" especially if the price is the same.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by vadimpelau View Post
Well then, how have you imagined it? My fuselage needs to be changed soon anyway and the weather isn't too kind either. So, plenty of time for tinkering!
The stickers on the rear sides of the fuse are where the scale ones would be.
Here is an image:


I personally think that they are not needed. This is coming from someone that flies his mig in a 175ft x 200ft box with trees on two sides my house on the third and only one side open. My approach is a descending semi circle and my landing area is only 6ft wide gravel/dirt driveway of which the center 2ft are big stones so I have 2 2ft strips. I have just under 50ft of usable landing length. I've never had a problem landing the mig as long as the approach is good. To fast or too high and it'll float forever. Just make sure it is slowed down early and get that nose up.

Anyways... Airbrakes. You could mount the servo somewhere on top and use a flexible pushrod in a guide similar to how they routed the two elevator control rods. Make two extremely light plastic pieces that are the size/shape of the stickers on the mig. Hinge them in the front and place the stickers on them. Most importantly keep it light!! Extra weight on this plane will make it fly poorly.

-Brian
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