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Old Dec 09, 2011, 09:08 PM
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Phoenix 8

Looking for information on the P8. Just recieved the kit, the plans don't show how much diehedral is needed for the wing. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks Clint
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 10:02 AM
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Zero
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 04:54 PM
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simple enough..............
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 05:15 PM
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David any build pictures of your P8 ? How's it coming?

Don
rcaiir@gmail.com
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 12:16 AM
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P8 wing

Clint

I had sent you an email days ago. Did you not get it? As I said in the email, it is zero. If you were to put 1" blocks under each wing tip it makes it zero. It is to say the Leading and Trailing edges are straight. I used a six foot straight edge on the table , drew center lines on the trailing edge and line everything up when joining the the wing halves.

Don

Please note I made your fuselage with West Systems Epoxy Resin and Polyester Resin is not recommended for anything being attached to it. Use epoxy on epoxy only for best results. If you need any other help feel free to ask.
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 11:24 AM
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P8 Wing

Don, I didn't see your email I must have missed it. Thanks for the reply. I am planning on using 5 minute and 30 minute epoxy for the fuse. Will this work okay?

Looking forward to getting the P8 project on the way. Fuse work looks really good! Thanks Clint
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 02:32 PM
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Phoenix VIII

Clint

What I always do to install the bulkheads and wing mounting ply is use 5 or 30 min. epoxy to locate them and on the motor bulkhead and retract mounting ply plate I add a small strip of 6oz fiberglass cloth with epoxy resin around the edges to really make it locked in.

Don
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 06:49 PM
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Don, the project is underway.

David
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Last edited by dhal22; Dec 20, 2011 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Incorrect info
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 07:46 PM
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David

I hope it all works out OK for you. If you need anything let me know.
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 08:42 PM
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There is a nice in the box P8 in the 4 sale section.Right now.!!!!!!!!
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by pathfinder View Post
There is a nice in the box P8 in the 4 sale section.Right now.!!!!!!!!
That should be a collector item only as Don provides a lighter kit for much less money.

David
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 05:51 PM
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What's the weight on Don's Phoenix 8 Fuselage?

I was wondering what Don's weight is on his Phoenix 8 fuselage...bare no bulkheads? Anyone know?

I weighed the Phoenix 8 fuselage I have and it's 429 grams which is 15 oz. ! It's out of the kit I have, made by Aero Composites.

It has the rudder post glued in it by the factory.

That's pretty light for a 60 size pattern plane that was often seen.... running a high performance....rear exhaust .61 size engine and tuned pipe.

Light ..and Strong ....is like they say... the way to go.
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 07:08 PM
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Phoenix 8 had Dihedral....it wasn't Zero on the Aero Composites kit.

I provide this information on the Phoenix 8 kits that I owned, built and flew. The only Phoenix series I've owned and built is the Phoenix 8 that was built by AERO COMPOSITES. So what I'm sharing is about that ONE kit "alone"...I do not remember the details from 30 years ago on the earlier versions of the Phoenix.

The Aero Composites - Phoenix 8 had the dihedral and the rear sweep of the wing, pre-cut into the wing cores. This made it really easy to get the dihedral right, once you got your sheeting of each wing half done. The sweep was correct and your wing had no chance of a twist ...tip to tip. It made building a good wing , easy. The sheeted wings were just layed in their lower beds, the roots butted together, and lightly glued. The proper dihedral ...measured from the wing core tips highest point (top bed removed) ...measured a one inch drop to center...with a straight edge layed tip to tip. [ "See the photo attached."]

The double taper of the wing and the symetrical airfoil like you have on the Phoenix 8 is hard to match up, and get joined correctly ...without the beds. I've built other planes...it's a pain trying to get it right just blocking it up, and keeping the twist out.

The dihedral is not shown at all, on the plans I have from the Aero Composites kit...but note...the dihedral is not ZERO on the kits I have had.....These may be the same plans that other makers of the Phoenix 8 have. I do not know about the other versions.

I do know the dihedral is mentioned in the four pages of the Building Instructions that came with my P8 kits. They are old...and scanned for you to read...the best I could do. Hope it sheds some light on the Phoenix 8 for all of you that are interested. [See the sheets attached.]

I know the wing cores I have in my unbuilt kit (thats for sale) has the dihedral and sweep precut into them. ["See the attached photos."]

The sweep back of the wings is 5 degrees....it measured as 2 5/8 inches, at the center, with a straight edge laid tip to tip at the trailing edge. See the photo it helps.

I can remember at all the events we used to fly....we saw a lot of different thinking on Dihedral and Swept back wings. There were planes that had even....anhedral enough to drag the ground. The Phoenix 8 was popular in it's last versions....with my friends that taught me to fly RC. They were a lot better at pattern than I ever was, or could be. They all had 12 or 20 years more RC flying of every kind...before I ever met them, or owned my first RC plane. I know they liked the Phoenix 8, talked about it all the time, and flew it in the contests they went to. I remember all the reasons they thought it was one of the best at the time. Yeap! That's why I bought two....I wanted them to teach me to fly like that....I ached to be that good...Ha! You can buy anything you want ...except the skills and the right brain/left brain interface, to get to where they were in flying ability....I learned real quick. I never got it all connected...to run that quick on the sticks. I'm a great builder...but a not a great flyer.

The Phoenix 8 was a great flyer. The slight differences we saw in the competion planes ....had to be measured, to see, between the pattern planes of the day. (Sailplanes I fly are a lot like that today) The dihedral and sweep and weight and power and rudder and flying stab or not flying stab....were hotly debated all the day long! Then a you'd see a guy fly on a windy day....and a beautiul grooved pattern.....easy straight rolls, clean smooth power and climb....and we'd all hunt him down later....and try to find what he did to that ...plane ...to make it fly like that. Funny...the more things change the more they stay the same. I think if you have really good skills, you can probably fly the box the kit came in...but the Phoenix 8 in the right hands ..built light...with good power...could GROOVE! I do think the dihedral and sweep helped it.

A couple of other notes:
The fuselage was/is epoxy and glass and weighs 429 grams = 15 oz.
wing core bare weighed 91 grams = 3.2 oz
the belly pan is 37 grams = 1.3 oz [I have the photos...no room here in this post]

There were some things me and my buddies did different on the P8's we flew in pattern contests ....I'll do another post if you'd like to know.

Clint....I sent you all this... to your email.

I hope this helps answer the question on dihedral....that was used in the Aero Composites --Phoenix 8 kit.

Have fun guys,

John
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 07:52 PM
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John, thanks for this info. It's very helpful. Clint
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasThermalKing View Post
There were some things me and my buddies did different on the P8's we flew in pattern contests ....I'll do another post if you'd like to know.
John
John, please share with us when you have the chance. I think there are many building P-8's, also would like to hear more on the Giezendanner flying stab mechanism / Violett Flying Fork, if possible. Thanks.
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