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Old Oct 15, 2007, 12:03 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,937 Posts
FAQ
Graupner iFS

This thread will be monitored by Graupner. Please post questions about the iFS system here. Off topic questions or responses will be DELETED.

The iFS system is compatible with the XtremeLink system. However, the iFS receivers are preset to a country code of 3 (Europe). You will want to reprogram the country to be 1 (Non-France/Non-Europe) to obtain the full unrestricted frequency range. Note: a RESET of an iFS receiver will reset the country back to 3.
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 05:49 AM
Registered User
Arad, Romania
Joined Oct 2007
2 Posts
Dear Jim, Graupner and all,

As an Graupner TX owner, airmodell pilot and president of the local club, I have some question about this IFS system. I read almost all topics in this forum about this system in european market including also the French topics.

Please let us understand some technical information if this are public informations.

Before this products became available in the European market, Graupner as the local representant, has made some tehnical test to obtain the EU certification. In the flyer (downloadable from Graupner homepage) after presenting the power range between 10-100mW it is a warn "check the local regulation about output power limit"

Right now, in the introduction, Jim sayd: "the iFS receivers are preset to a country code of 3".

Question 1 - If this TX modules are preset to power limit with country code 3, how big is the output power? If this code 3 is the same what is alowed in France, that can be just only 10mW?

Before Graupner make this decision to limit the output power with country code 3, probably the technical staff has colected information about de EU regulations.

Question 2 - Is this output power limit alowed in each european country? With the IFS system preset code 3, can I fly everywhere in Europa or need to ask at first for the local regulation?

If I understood, with decreasing the output power with this code 3 set also the wide of the freqvency range.

Question 3 - Can somebody publish here a table like this: code 1 - output 1xx mW - freq. range 24xx Mhz to 24xx - maximum number of channels/Tx alowed to use in same time, code 2, code 3, etc.? This table can be helpfull if the Graupner technical stuff do not collect information about each european country like Romania. With this table we can check if our setings is in accordance with local regulations.

Question 4 - If just the settings with code 3 are alowed all ower Europe, can somebody tell us what is the real range of the equipement for ground/water/air applications? Not theoretical, practical! This 2000 meter presented in the Graupner flyer, for which code are measured? Can I fly a jet with code 3 safe in the visual range?

Question 5 - Can somebody explain what are the dangerous equipement what can make lockouts on the 2,4GHz (manufacturer independent) R/C's? Mean something like: Do not use it near: radar, airport, etc. That can be a good information to use it or not on the existing airfields.

Please excuse my english and hope to be not off with this post.
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 07:11 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2007
4 Posts
When will field-upgradeable units be shipped ?

Hi all,

due to the massive future possibilities which are introduced using this kind of 2.4 GHz transmitter based technology (MaxStream), it will only make sense for me to buy XPS components which can be software-updated by myself.

Sending components to a servicecenter just for getting firmware-updates done is not an option at these times we are living in...

I guess the overall performance of the system will be OK. So my questions left are:

- when will field-upgradeable units be sold thru the GRAUPNER distribution channel ?

- the MaxStream Modules (RF component of XPS) are also available with an external antenna connector. Will there be a version of the receiver(s) which allow the attachment of an external antenna ? This would solve the RX-issues (and TX of course too) regarding using the XPS receivers in CFK of metallic fuselages...

thank you for your answers in advance



regards from germany

tom
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 08:40 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,937 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zozo
Question 1 - If this TX modules are preset to power limit with country code 3, how big is the output power? If this code 3 is the same what is alowed in France, that can be just only 10mW?

Before Graupner make this decision to limit the output power with country code 3, probably the technical staff has colected information about de EU regulations.

Question 2 - Is this output power limit alowed in each european country? With the IFS system preset code 3, can I fly everywhere in Europa or need to ask at first for the local regulation?

If I understood, with decreasing the output power with this code 3 set also the wide of the freqvency range.

Question 3 - Can somebody publish here a table like this: code 1 - output 1xx mW - freq. range 24xx Mhz to 24xx - maximum number of channels/Tx alowed to use in same time, code 2, code 3, etc.? This table can be helpfull if the Graupner technical stuff do not collect information about each european country like Romania. With this table we can check if our setings is in accordance with local regulations.

Question 4 - If just the settings with code 3 are alowed all ower Europe, can somebody tell us what is the real range of the equipement for ground/water/air applications? Not theoretical, practical! This 2000 meter presented in the Graupner flyer, for which code are measured? Can I fly a jet with code 3 safe in the visual range?

Question 5 - Can somebody explain what are the dangerous equipement what can make lockouts on the 2,4GHz (manufacturer independent) R/C's? Mean something like: Do not use it near: radar, airport, etc. That can be a good information to use it or not on the existing airfields.

Please excuse my english and hope to be not off with this post.
1. Country code 3 does not change the output power, only the frequency usage. This allows the full 100mw power to be legally used in most all of the EU. France also allows 100mw when using Country code 2.

2. Country code 2 should be used for all of the EU with 100mw. The output power is set in the transmitter, not the receiver. The frequency restrictions are set in the receiver, not the transmitter.

3. See above.

4. The real range is the same as the XtremeLink system.

5. High power radar, on virtually any frequency can present a problem for any R/C device. 2.4GHz is prone to issues from radar commonly found around airports, because this is where weather radar is often located. Nexrad type radar is 750,000 watts of power on 2.7GHz to 3.0GHz, close enough to cause problems with 2.4GHz due to the bleeding of the frequency at that output power.
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 08:50 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,937 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellpower
- when will field-upgradeable units be sold thru the GRAUPNER distribution channel ?

- the MaxStream Modules (RF component of XPS) are also available with an external antenna connector. Will there be a version of the receiver(s) which allow the attachment of an external antenna ? This would solve the RX-issues (and TX of course too) regarding using the XPS receivers in CFK of metallic fuselages...
Graupner's next order (shipping shortly) and all future orders will all be in-field upgradable. We have been shipping mostly in-field upgradable products to the U.S. customers for about a month without anyone knowing it.

We have experimented with the external antenna, and although it works, the range is not nearly as good and there are several other issues that need to be worked out before these could be FCC/ETSI approved for use.
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 09:06 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, Slough
Joined Aug 2003
1,971 Posts
Re the power output, what is the actual true measured PSD /MHz ?

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Old Oct 16, 2007, 12:12 PM
Registered User
Switzerland
Joined May 2005
51 Posts
Jim,

is the Frequency system the same as XPS, I mean hop on demand or does it always hop like Futaba?

Regards,
Andi
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 02:55 PM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,937 Posts
The output power is whatever you set it to be.

The frequency system is different from the Futaba system.
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 02:55 PM
Registered User
Kirchheim/Teck, Germany
Joined Mar 2007
96 Posts
Hi,
we are allowed to use power level 5 in whole Europe, including France.
Users in Romania and Bulgaria please send me a private mail in order to discuss deeper.

Technical questions are not intended to be discussed in this thread.

Frank
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 03:13 PM
Registered User
Switzerland
Joined May 2005
51 Posts
So you only change frequencies when necessary?
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 03:16 PM
Registered User
Switzerland
Joined May 2005
51 Posts
By the way, technical and legal questions are the ones which most users are interested in. If it's not a FHSS system (using all channels and switching at least every 0.4s) then it's not legal in most of Europe.
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Old Oct 16, 2007, 03:46 PM
FHSS won Europe hitherto
Vienna/Austria
Joined Jun 2005
428 Posts
Hi Frank,

will yo please specify "power level 5"

Rudy
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Old Oct 17, 2007, 02:55 AM
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The Netherlands, Utrecht, Amersfoort
Joined Oct 2004
2,193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dl2gbm
Technical questions are not intended to be discussed in this thread.
So, no technical questions, no questions about why we have to pay much more than people in US...

You don't leave much to talk about in a thread specific for Graupner iFS
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Last edited by CrashingDutchman; Oct 17, 2007 at 03:06 AM. Reason: typo
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Old Oct 17, 2007, 08:13 AM
Registered User
Arad, Romania
Joined Oct 2007
2 Posts
Thanks Jim for your quick answer!

Frank (dl2gbm), please check your PM's
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Old Oct 17, 2007, 09:41 AM
Registered User
Kirchheim/Teck, Germany
Joined Mar 2007
96 Posts
there is plenty of room in this forum to discuss technical questions. If we could discuss technical questions specific to IFS, that would be appreciated.
As long as technics are identical, there´s no reason to discuss in different threads.

Frank
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