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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Maxthrottle's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av8ersteve View Post
Hi guys. What receiver are you all using. 7 or 8 Channel. I have to buy one and just wondering.
Depends on how you want to set it up. Factory it caters to 7. If you want to start separating stuff then you go up from there. Personally I find even 9 not enough.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:21 PM
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United States, FL, Oviedo
Joined Dec 2008
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Takeoff data

Wow.......

Due to poor runway conditions and pilot skills, I ended up with fixed gear.

Takeoffs are now absolutely gorgeous.

Mains are 2 inches taller and Nose is about 3 inches taller.

For those that were discussing the nose angle of the plane during takeoff, that is definitely a flaw that causes this thing to jump erratically into the air.

I guess low pressure at the inlets may be holding it down also, because raising the entire plane improved upon the earlier version of just raising the nose.

Not much you can do if keeping the retracts, tho......

.
Video --
Takeoff (0 min 0 sec)

.

.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Hey I picked 4s for the ARC 28-58-1 inrunners I will use with the 70mm CS12Blade fans, my Japanese Guru thought it the best weight to thrust option, I will use 2 x 4s in parallel, most likely 4400-4800mAhs the calcs are as follows

札幌フ 3.6x4=14.4V 14.4x3180KV=45792rpm

1750g Thrust

OHH: ok so 1750 x 2 = 3500g thrust with the 2 EDFs, that should be ok on the Su35-- I'm guessing my flying weight at about 2800g

札幌フ: 4S is lightweight.
The flight weight becomes light after all.
Therefore the airspeed becomes fast

3500gx0.85=2975g

So if I can get my flying weight to about 2800g I'll have > 1:1 thrust ratio
He also advised me I need minimum 60c LiPos with 6mm gold connectors otherwise I'll be losing current.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:25 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
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Why I chose 4s over 6s

Quote:
Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
4S seems too little voltage to me for an EDF this size...
Hey I picked 4s for the ARC 28-58-1 inrunners I will use with the 70mm CS12Blade fans, my Japanese Guru thought it the best weight to thrust option, I will use 2 x 4s in parallel, most likely 4400-4800mAhs the calcs are as follows

札幌フ 3.6x4=14.4V 14.4x3180KV=45792rpm

1750g Thrust

OHH: ok so 1750 x 2 = 3500g thrust with the 2 EDFs, that should be ok on the Su35-- I'm guessing my flying weight at about 2800g

札幌フ: 4S is lightweight.
The flight weight becomes light after all.
Therefore the airspeed becomes fast

3500gx0.85=2975g

So if I can get my flying weight to about 2800g I'll have > 1:1 thrust ratio
He also advised me I need minimum 60c LiPos with 6mm gold connectors otherwise I'll be losing current.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:50 PM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
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Did anyone work out the AMPS of your 4S plans?
You will need to know that to work out flight time, and other shortfalls it might encounter.... eg to even get those Amps needed reliably, or at all. Which means VERY GOOD batteries.
Those two parallel batteries sound like it could work out fine, I am not sure. And then flight time....

I agree that 3500g will end up somewhere like 3000g in the plane... but you still always need to test and see what you really get.

So let's see.....
CS10's need 1200W to get 1.8Kg on the bench (approx), so you need 1200W
1200W / 14.4 = 83 Amps... each motor. So for a start you want a good motor (seems that is covered). And 100A ESC's. And good wiring.
(4.800 / 83 ) * 60 = 3.46min flight time (if all WOT) * 0.8 = 2.8 mins
Pretty good totals really.
But your two batteries are 200g heavier than a 5000mAH 6S 65C - which isn't too important until you go to 3D. They also cost a bit more for the pair.
So the motors, ESC's, batteries will cost more. Prob $100 or more extra than for 6S. But you got longer flight time. (if they fit)

It sounds like it would all work out......
But you won't be lighter than a 6S equivalent.
Batteries +200g, ESCs, motors, wiring.... all have to be X amount heavier to deal with that larger total current needed.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:11 PM
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United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
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Tube,

like I'll mentioned to you im really interested to see what a 4s setup can do. Main thing is to try and keep it 2800g max for your best performance and flight time, which I know I also mentioned to you. Those 3200kv arc motors will also play a big part in what battery will give you the best of both worlds flight time and light weight. Yes and you want to also use a min 5mm connector.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 05:30 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
4S seems too little voltage to me for an EDF this size...
Here's my Su35 maiden on 6s, we'll see how it compares on the new 4s system!!

Maiden Freewing Su-35 Twin 70mm: Lyoto Machida Blesses the Sukhoi! (9 min 10 sec)
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 05:52 PM
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Pete; Have you flown the CS70/12 yet. It makes sense that with a shallower blade than the 10 the rpm increases but how does it translate dynamically in the duct rather than on the bench?

There doesn't seem to be any posted numbers on the 3400kv 4S yet. No one shows the true amps in a tube or in the sky.
My guess is it may be great for 3D thrust. But it'll get hot for speed passes.
Then again it may just start doing a new set of unexpected stuff as the CS70/10 did.

For this model though it'll would do better with the 70/12 on 6S. May not be as fast though.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:07 PM
I did it...
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Morganton, NC
Joined Jun 2005
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Can anyone tell me how to get everything hooked up and programmed using a DX18 and an 8 channel receiver? I'm getting ready to start and by looking at the manual, it doesn't seem like it's going to be much help. I can figure it out but if someone already has it done it's a lot faster to copy then adjust from there. I'm on my way to the hobby shop to pick up the 8 channel receiver now. Thanks guys.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:17 PM
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United States, NV, Fernley
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Depends on how you want to set it up. Factory it caters to 7. If you want to start separating stuff then you go up from there. Personally I find even 9 not enough.
I totally agree with Max. I ran out of channels with 9. I sacrificed tailerons so that I could separate my steering out. Now I would like to add wheel brakes and air brake.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
4S seems too little voltage to me for an EDF this size...
For what it's worth-- I flew my 6s MiG-29 on the 6s stock and on 4s with CS10B/3300kv outrunners, in my humble opinion it was faster on the 4s system!

UFC Pres Dana White Pilots the Rebuilt Bananahobby MiG-29OVT after Horrific Crash!! (5 min 48 sec)
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:02 PM
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I lost count of how many channels I have...... 11? 13?

The CS12 seems very similar to the CS10 - all numbers close to identical.
But I will have to check the actual RPM to be sure.
Then..... will it be the same..... result/sound etc.... in a plane? I expect you won't be able to tell/guess which one someone is using. eg same end results.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:07 PM
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"Faster than stock" is some form of reference, but if doing CS10/12 the reference you need is 4S versus 'aftermarket' 6S. Because the setup is almost surely going to use much better 6S motors - like the 4S will too. Not 'mediocore' stock 6S motors.
eg HET, Leopard, CyclonePower (Inrunner) as the main 6S CS10/12 options.

So that comparison of 4S to stock is likely to be unfair... as the 4S setup would have been better motors etc.
Use a better motor setup in the stock fans (HET etc) and I expect that will outrun the 4S result. Mainly as 6S is more efficient, plus can be driven out to much higher powers than 4S ever could - if chosen to do so, motor KV etc.
And as per my weight calcs (vaguely mentioned earlier) 4S will not be lighter than 6S of the exact same power.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:46 PM
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SU-4ever's Avatar
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Totally agree with PeterVRC

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecopey View Post
Wow.......

Due to poor runway conditions and pilot skills, I ended up with fixed gear.

Takeoffs are now absolutely gorgeous.

Mains are 2 inches taller and Nose is about 3 inches taller.

For those that were discussing the nose angle of the plane during takeoff, that is definitely a flaw that causes this thing to jump erratically into the air.

I guess low pressure at the inlets may be holding it down also, because raising the entire plane improved upon the earlier version of just raising the nose.

Not much you can do if keeping the retracts, tho......

.
Video -- http://youtu.be/xhtAwXcLOMA
.

.
Now these are great experimental results, thanks for sharing, though I don't think the unable-to-take-off issue is because of air suction.

Raising the nose will help and I think maybe the fact that you get "cleaner air" less disturbed by the ground affects more profile efficiency than the suction issue. Besides, the worst problem wasn't about the plane being unable to reach flight speed but to be able to ROTATE, and that makes me think that what you are noticing is that your taileron now are also higher and have better air flow to be able to control pitch.

Cheers!
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 08:32 PM
I did it...
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Morganton, NC
Joined Jun 2005
756 Posts
Do you guys just set yours up traditional (throttle, aileron, elevator, rudder) or some way else like a delta mix or something? I would hate to do this setup then find out it fly's better someway else. Thanks.
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