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Old May 04, 2014, 11:13 PM
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Miller ... I agree. The the case of that one.. The additional cost is not worth it to me. It would be another $60+ retail to replace servo's so I'm out. Kicks it out of value (to me). Where HH could upgrade/correct for probably $15 or $20.. Which would not mind.

This is really off topic... Sooooo. Redirecting......We need a Pitts in our shops to have fun with. The UMX PItts owners group! We have a big public event "City Fest" coming up with flight demo's and static displays for the community. Hoping I have the pitts sitting next to the beast, Ccub and blade heli's & quads - along with all the Big Stuff. The kids LOVE the P51.. Well Dad's do too. :-). The Pitts are always popular.
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Old May 04, 2014, 11:45 PM
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United States, GA, Peachtree City
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Originally Posted by kjkimball View Post
Adam,

One thing you have not factored into your "QQ stuff costs more" analysis is pioneering. If you look at the airplanes that cost more in the HH line up, many are typically the FIRST in that category or the FIRST of a construction or electronic innovation. After that, the subsequent airplanes, from HH or competitors have the advantage of learning from the trail blazed before them.

You are right, QQ is a legend and very marketable. It is my belief this fact was used to help consumers accept the the higher pricing required to cover the investment when inventing totally new ways to build airplanes or new electronics to operate them. Recall the UMX Beast was the FIRST 2S UM. It was later the FIRST with AS3X. Carbon Z style construction was brought to the market while he was with HH.

So, given my insight is a bit deeper into the workings of how all this gets to market, I know there are reasons far more responsible for pricing than the name of the designer or the name of the full scale designer for that matter. Am I biased? Sure! Quique is a good friend of mine and the fact that he has taken several of my designs and created RC versions is Awesome!

The fact is most buyer of RC products cannot and will never use the airplane or electronics to the full design capability. Those who fly RC like I do just get out there and have some fun with the airplanes. In UM class, it is about the same fun with a UMX beast or a simple foamy cut out with a box knife. I think this is true for the majority. However, just like with computers, phones, cars, boats, etc., people desire to have products with LOTS of capability and or power. They can't use it but like to know they have it. The difference is designs by Quique and others of his caliber have hundreds or thousands of little tweaks to them that give the airplane the capability to do what Quique or Seth can do with them. It takes time and money to get right.
Couldn't agree with you more...QQ designed several "firsts" that I bought and flew...the Scimitar (think I butchered the spelling on that) was awesome...it boggled my mind why it didn't catch on more - so many people wanted a Stryker with landing gear and QQ delivered one with thrust vectoring! The Visionaire is awesome as well...truly what he intended...a plane most sport pilots could 3D...turned out to be a little too easy for my tastes, but still right on the mark for what it was intended to be.

Yes sir...trailblazers always fetch a premium. QQ is the RC worlds Kelly Johnson! Anyone that designs with the attention to detail that he does will as you said...take more time and money to get it right. I'm not insinuating they raise the price just because QQ's name is printed on the side, but rather stating that his attention to detail and vision may increase the required budget necessary to bring a model to market. So if QQ has something to do with it...his reputation precedes him...it may be pricy. Not that that is unjust, mind you.

Adam
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Old May 05, 2014, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Saxguy1000 View Post
Adam, that's some true reckoning, but remember, the opposite is true, also. More electronics fail than what are reported. In fact, I'm willing to bet that a larger percentage failures go unreported than are reported on on RCG. I personally have never voiced a problem with my models on RCG except to ask for advice what to do about it.
True, but like I said - if you go into a thread and everybody (or the VAST majority) is having the same problem ( as with millers twin peaks) then by all means act on that and fix the issue before its a problem for you. On the other hand...if 12 out of 50 people in a thread are having a problem, and 38 people are thrilled with it with no issues...you may want to check yours out first before you spend money fixing something that may not be an issue for you. On occasion the problems are the owner...can't tell you how many people come in the shop with a complaint that turns out to be something they built, assembled, or set up wrong. Lots of people are really into the hobby, unfortunately not all of them are really good at it...
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Old May 05, 2014, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rjdraughn View Post
The last time my wife looked in my gun safe, she said, "Just how many guns DO you have?" Now when I mention buying a new gun, she says, "You do not need another gun! Buy all the planes you want!" ( I still do sneak a new gun in my collection every now and then, but not often). No complaints about a new plane! She actually likes the way the new little UMX Pitts looks.
CAREFUL, rjdraughn............. one of those gun-grabbin' politicians might be watching this site.

They probably aren't interested in grabbing our planes yet.......... or are they?
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Old May 05, 2014, 07:15 AM
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Slightly OT, but since this Lil Pitts is an aerobatic superstar, here's to another:

--With respect and remembrance of Eddie Andreini.

Tom
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Old May 05, 2014, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Thunderboat42 View Post
Yeah... Looks like I've got a wife 2.0 in the possible future. Not sure yet. But I have pre-qualified my hobby expenses that they are what they are. LOL. Agreed, many other things cost more.
That's so true. MANY THINGS COST MORE. I say to my wife, " Look what we spend per year on our local taxes. What do we get for them? Maybe they plow our roads in the winter...... but only if they feel like it!"

At least I'm getting something for my money that I enjoy with RC planes. She even agrees!
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Old May 05, 2014, 09:54 AM
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We can all agree these little wonders are awesome and love them in this bunch!

Yes, we each have individual ideas and opinions on things that could be improved. Some are collective consensus relating to what should be modified or corrected. Converstaions are healthy. Opinions and preferences are productive.

They are wonders that facilitate a hangar full of diverse aircraft without a mortgage!
With "UMX - Life is Good". Anyone want a T Shirt? LOL.

Where is that pitts? (Looking over horizon). Pun intended.

I want one of these very light in a squeeze a 120 four stroke in size - Hint hint. Add smoke.. I'd be happy happy happy.
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Old May 05, 2014, 10:07 AM
Romans 8:34-39
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Originally Posted by Thunderboat42 View Post
Miller ... I agree. The the case of that one.. The additional cost is not worth it to me. It would be another $60+ retail to replace servo's so I'm out. Kicks it out of value (to me). Where HH could upgrade/correct for probably $15 or $20.. Which would not mind.

This is really off topic... Sooooo. Redirecting......We need a Pitts in our shops to have fun with. The UMX PItts owners group! We have a big public event "City Fest" coming up with flight demo's and static displays for the community. Hoping I have the pitts sitting next to the beast, Ccub and blade heli's & quads - along with all the Big Stuff. The kids LOVE the P51.. Well Dad's do too. :-). The Pitts are always popular.
My Inverza servos were garbage. Absolute trash. I tried a gear transplant so as to not have to pull a servo out and the gears literally crumbled in my fingers. I wonder if it had anything to do with the grease used softening the nylon. But, I loved that plane, and budgeted to purchase it for a while, and I was very disappointed when those things happened (it died on its maiden due to a rudder servo stripping and sticking at FULL DEFLECTION), so I spent another $100 to kit it out with Hitec HS35HDs at $25 a pop. I did a tailwheel relief mod so the rearward stresses of landing are transferred to the fuse instead of the rudder hinges. Never have I had a problem since. So while I doubt it is cost effective to everyone, it was totally worth it to me. I still love that plane. It flies so well, gets insane when I want it to, is very precise with proper rates and low winds, and just looks incredible. BUT: like I stated, my Edge QQ uses those SAME little 4g digital servos held together with a flaky piece of shrink tube, and they've been bulletproof through 50+ flights!

Also the conjecturing and guessing about what it would cost to fix a problem or produce a plane or what whose margins are, is just silly talk. Nobody here has any knowledge unless you work directly for Horizon what it would cost to fix or alter anything. I'm guessing it's WAY more than you think, because coming from a background in a company which had manufactured and imported products from Chinese companies, they don't do little runs of products for you, and it's not cost effective for anyone involved to do so. A minimum order of servos might be 5,000 units. It might even be more. Who is going to spend $8 per servo for 5,000 units - lay out $40,000 - and then flush it because some unknown quantity was bad? Lead times are typically long, like 6 weeks. Look at all the threads "HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO WAIT HORIZON FOR YOU TO GET US OUR PRODUCTS" ... well, six weeks, eight weeks, sometimes more, sometimes less, that's just the way business is done. Oh and I've seen several of the factories over in Shenzhen and some other cities. They're ridiculous. The notion of underpaid poor workers scrabbling out a living in some hovel like a WWII concentration camp couldn't be further off the mark.

OK, 'nuff ranting. Let's just give Horizon the benefit of the doubt; I know we're generally all really excited about Horizon's products. This UMX line has a killer following, they fly off the shelves at my LHS. I love every one of them that I own, and that's nearly all. Problems will happen. Horizon's track record of customer service is known as providing much better in the positive column than the negative column. And I do believe that this Pitts is poised to break some sales records. I don't think this many people have been this excited about a UMX release to date.

Hope to see us all posting some great videos of having a blast with the UMX Pitts in the near future!

Ben
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Old May 05, 2014, 10:09 AM
Romans 8:34-39
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United States, FL, Davenport
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Originally Posted by Thunderboat42 View Post
We can all agree these little wonders are awesome and love them in this bunch!

Yes, we each have individual ideas and opinions on things that could be improved. Some are collective consensus relating to what should be modified or corrected. Converstaions are healthy. Opinions and preferences are productive.

They are wonders that facilitate a hangar full of diverse aircraft without a mortgage!
With "UMX - Life is Good". Anyone want a T Shirt? LOL.

Where is that pitts? (Looking over horizon). Pun intended.

I want one of these very light in a squeeze a 120 four stroke in size - Hint hint. Add smoke.. I'd be happy happy happy.
Here you go Uncle Phil, it's not a 120 but a DA60 or GP61 would haul the mail with this one

http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=300
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Old May 05, 2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenap View Post
CAREFUL, rjdraughn............. one of those gun-grabbin' politicians might be watching this site.

They probably aren't interested in grabbing our planes yet.......... or are they?
Off-Topic:
CAREFUL, Kenap. I'm a bleeding-heart liberal who lives in California and grew up shooting, taught by my pacifist dad. Just the other day I heard a freaking machine gun over in the next valley. It made the papers because so many people got on the phone. Turns out the guy has a permit for the gun and his firing range. So, nobody is taking anyone's guns, at least not in "liberal" California. Permitting, background-checks, sure. I had no idea there was any way for anyone to legally own and shoot a machine gun. But there is, even in California.

On-Topic:
No one is going to grab your plane, either, unless someone gets really stupid. So, let's all stay smart out there.
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Old May 05, 2014, 10:39 AM
Romans 8:34-39
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Off-Topic:
CAREFUL, Kenap. I'm a bleeding-heart liberal who lives in California and grew up shooting, taught by my pacifist dad. Just the other day I heard a freaking machine gun over in the next valley. It made the papers because so many people got on the phone. Turns out the guy has a permit for the gun and his firing range. So, nobody is taking anyone's guns, at least not in "liberal" California. Permitting, background-checks, sure. I had no idea there was any way for anyone to legally own and shoot a machine gun. But there is, even in California.

On-Topic:
No one is going to grab your plane, either, unless someone gets really stupid. So, let's all stay smart out there.
ugh... politics go away... let's not ruin good heated arguments over airplanes with that junk
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Old May 05, 2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Thunderboat42 View Post
With "UMX - Life is Good". Anyone want a T Shirt? .
Large please!
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Old May 05, 2014, 01:53 PM
Diverted by planks
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Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
my Edge QQ uses those SAME little 4g digital servos held together with a flaky piece of shrink tube, and they've been bulletproof through 50+ flights!

Ben
Bizzare, right? My own Edge QQ suffered two servo failures right out of box, and another another infant mortality within a couple of flights. THREE!.

Replaced them with cobbled together pieces of other broken servos from a second 540 (this was when that size alternative servo, or replacements from HH were unobtainium), and that dadgummed thing has been perfect since. Fly it a couple of times per week, never mess with it, leave it rattling around in the back of the car.... AND I taxi in and out on it, on a grass field.

So go figure!


I did do a mod to take pressure off the rudder hinges while taxi'ing, but the servo itself still gets a beating, and is still ticking.
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Old May 05, 2014, 03:00 PM
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Thanks Ben... Actually been looking at the Checkmate for a year.
http://aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=520
Although the P51 is sucking the budget in that size toy.

I have. YS 120 and a pitts is one of my all time fav's along w so many others. Why I about flipped and couldn't order quick enough w this one released. I do have another Goldberg Ultimate to replace my 18yr old baby that dies due to a simle forgetting the strap the battery in. I build slow and meticulous and she was beautiful.

The Inverensa.. Love it. But 4 G servos with problems have it off the radar unfortunately. I would put 9g on rudder, 6g on elev and 2 4g's or one 6 g on 'rons. Again.. Personal preference.

Yes, my LHS is flooded w request for this little pitts. I was first.. So get first. Actually thanks to HH and this group.. Knew about it before them *laughing* I told them they need to hire Adam.

Another couple of weeks and we'll have a new Pitt's owners thread and it will get FUN. We'll all be flying a virtual 'fly-in' w reports.
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Old May 05, 2014, 03:54 PM
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So I've been looking at this thread almost daily, so I guess was there something said by Horizon? , no official video? it comes at in 10 days. I cant recall a plane ever coming out with no official video, oh well I guess, looks awesome better then the beast in my opinion. I like the umx geebee style scale to it.
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