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Old Feb 11, 2003, 12:42 AM
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gomarpyle's Avatar
SF Bay Area
Joined Dec 2002
320 Posts
Fanfold Mini Speedwing ??? Could it work?

Ok... So I am poor... Big deal... I have 25 sheets of fanfold foam and enough supplies to put something together...

Has anyone made a fanfold mini speedwing type aircraft that flies worth a darn? I am looking to make somthing that will do crazy aerobitics ( for a wing ), and run off of Lipo batteries. Durability is importatnt too, as I don't want to keep rebuilding my plane everytime I crash?


OR, should I just save my efforts and not waste my time until I've saved up the $40 to order a MSW?



Thanks
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 09:45 AM
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emoone's Avatar
La Grange, Georgia, United States
Joined Nov 2001
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Dan from www.foamfly.com has a little 24" flying wing he made from bluecor ... I think it was a slowflyer though. In the early portions of "I bought some fanfold what should I build" MattK built a little 24" wing I think he called it a Mini-Z.

I've toyed with the idea myself but really thought bluecor might be a little thick for such a small plane. If you sliced it into an 1/8" thick piece it might be better ... or use sturdyboard/depron/zepron.

I did build a little 24" Pibros ... but I've never installed any gear.

For $40 its hard to pass up on a MSW however. It's a proven design and he has lots of happy customers.

Eddie
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 01:18 PM
The effect is sadly temporary
Hippo's Avatar
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Joined Oct 2001
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Oh yeah, it works, and good too!

It's my Mini-Wing that emoone is talking about. It's not a slowflyer though! I've been flying it a the local Golf Dome against the Mini-SpeedWings, and it does everything the MSW can do. Some of the guys have said that they like it better.

I can't begrudge Acer though, I don't know how he can sell that kit for only $40. I'm not making kits of my wing yet because it takes me 2 hours to make each kit, but it's no big deal if you're only making one. I've got plans for the wing, and the wing baking jig on my site: http://www.FoamFly.com/wing_jig.htm



So, if you want to make your own wings, as many as you want for about $1.00 a piece, it is possible. What I really like about mine, is that it's entirely hollow, so all the servos and gear are mounted internally. It's a nice look and really reduces drag.



Hope you like it,
-Dan
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 01:51 PM
Registered User
Sunnyvale Ca
Joined Jun 2002
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Fanfold wing for Crazy Max?

Has anybody tried making a hollow Fanfold wing as a replacement
wing for the Crazy Max (Wattage)? I hit the ground in a loop and the leading edge is kind of "mushy". I would like to make a replacement wing from FanFold if it is possible. With a higher
lift in the center, I should be able to completely bury the aileron servo(s) and that would be very nice. Any thoughts from the
FanFold cookers?
Ted Cooper - on a Wing and a Prayer and a little Foam
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 02:08 PM
The effect is sadly temporary
Hippo's Avatar
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Joined Oct 2001
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No cooking required

Ted,

For a symmetrical wing like the one on the Crazy Max, there's no need for baking. You can use the standard folded wing technique. It's a little much to go into here, but it makes for a pretty simple wing to build. Especially a straight one like that.

-Dan
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 02:54 PM
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gomarpyle's Avatar
SF Bay Area
Joined Dec 2002
320 Posts
Durable?

Hippo,

Thanks for the info.....

I have a question of durability though... How strong can a hollow wing be compared to solid EPS? On the other hand, I am sure it is probably lighter. Can it take a beating? Do you need to tape it up like the MSW?

Thanks
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 03:41 PM
The effect is sadly temporary
Hippo's Avatar
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Joined Oct 2001
1,675 Posts
It's strong all right.

gomarpyle,

Actually a Fan-Fold wing is stronger than an EPS wing. For several reasons:

1) The Foam is single extruded piece, not beaded, so it doesn't tend to come apart.

2) The Fan-Fold has a plastic skin on it already, so it doesn't require taping.

3) The Fan-Fold wing is a "Stressed Skin Structure" and is structurally strong than a solid piece of foam of the same density.

You don't need to put any tape in it because of the integral skin, and I've found that it's very resistive to dents. In an impact, the foam has a tendency to take on wrinkles more often than it will tear. The white foam is structually weak, and will shatter on impact unless you cover it in packing tape.

White foam in packing tape is just about the same weight as Fan-Fold without. It's really a matter of what's easier for you, but I find that I can make a strong wing quicker and easier, (and without hot-wire cutting) with the Fan-Fold.

I think that's opinionated enough.
-Dan
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 09:11 PM
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Oakdale, MN, USA
Joined Sep 2001
379 Posts
I made TWO of Dan's little wings and still have one of them. I made one in blue foam and one in pink foam. The blue flew better and the pink was definitely more durable. Although I cannot compare Hippo's wing with Acer's, because I don't have Acer's yet, I can say it is very quick, rolls incredibly fast and is very well designed. It is somewhat harder to build, but is quite rewarding when you have done one.

I built Hippo's wings back when I was relatively inexperienced at flying R/C. Both of them had "unscheduled arrivals" with the ground far more often than I would have then admitted. The pink one nosed in from about fifty feet with minimal damage.

Check out htis thread for some of my experiences:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=Dale+Case

I actually quit working with Hippo's wing jig because my oven wouldn't hold even temperatures. I have since replaced the oven with a new Kenmore and will probably revisit the fine art of "baking wings". Dan doesn't receive enough credit for what he has brought to our table.

Hippo, you are one of our design geniuses!!!!

Dale Case

P.S. - Once upon a time, Dan, I promised you a surprise. I was working on a twin engined version of your wing when my wife got ill and I had to move away from building for a while. This was before Acer came out with his twin, so I was excited about the novelty of it. I think I'll go back to it now that things have settled down and I have an oven with decent temp control.

Thanks again, Dan.
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 10:13 PM
GRAVITY... Just Say NO!
ArcherAce's Avatar
Toledo, OH
Joined Apr 2002
994 Posts
Hippo, do you know if your wing jig is capable of making replacement wings for gws planes? Like, say, the Tiger Moth or the Beaver?

BTW, did you use the wing jig to make those sweet wings on your Corsair?
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 10:21 PM
The effect is sadly temporary
Hippo's Avatar
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Joined Oct 2001
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Wings? That's easy

ArcherAce,

Sure, you could bake some Beaver wings pretty easily. They'd be stronger too. You might need to adjust the wing saddle so that you got a good fit, but the wings would hold up fine.

You could do Tigermoth wings too, but I'm not interested in just replacing the wings, I'm working on a replacement for the entire Moth. I'll be posting about it when the second prototype has flown.

Yes, I baked the wings on the Corsair in the Wing Jig the same way I make all my undercambered slowflyer wings. They really look good with the scale wingtips don't they I'm planning to do a GeeBee the same way soon.


Dale,

I was wondering if you were ever coming back. Thanks for the kind words. Stay in touch, lot's of good stuff coming soon.

-Dan
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 11:07 PM
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Oakdale, MN, USA
Joined Sep 2001
379 Posts
Dan, I had a whole new set of priorities placed before me starting Nov. 4th, the date of Amy's surgery. She's doing much better now, but I went from "building mode" to " flying whenever I could mode" about Thanksgiving time. During December I actually logged more night flight time than day flight time courtesy of the Curtek lights and a modified GWS Cub FD.

The weather in Minnesota "went south" about three weeks ago and I haven't gotten any flight time since Jan 7th. Therefore, it is time to go back to "buildinng mode". Awaiting their maiden flights are a Crazy Max, a GWS P-51 Christmas present, and two scratch built planes designed around the Firebird speed wing.

Now that things are settled down I need to revisit some of my previous successes. I think I need a new Frog for all of this new snow. Who needs skis? And I want to finish the twin-motored Fastwing now that I can bake more accurate cores. I didn't buy a new oven just to make airplanes. It was old and needed to be replaced. Really. I mean it.

Best regards, Dan,

Dale Case
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 11:24 PM
The effect is sadly temporary
Hippo's Avatar
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Joined Oct 2001
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Sorry it's off topic but...

Dale,

I'm so glad that Amy's doing well. I was a little afraid to ask. Tell her we all wish her well.

I know what you mean about the weather. It's not good her in Michigan either. I had to resort to flying on a Frozen Lake on Sunday! I guess that makes me pretty desperate. Especially since I ended up crashing, and had to make my way out to the middle of the ice to retreive the parts...

Talk to you later,
-Dan
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Old Feb 11, 2003, 11:54 PM
GRAVITY... Just Say NO!
ArcherAce's Avatar
Toledo, OH
Joined Apr 2002
994 Posts
Re: Wings? That's easy

That Corsair of yours looks fantastic! I'd love to have a slowflyer Corsair. Do you have plans up for that?

I noticed in your pics that you baked your wing in an electric oven. I'm in the process of moving into a new house, and the oven is gas. I've never baked anything in a gas oven, let alone a wing. Will it still work ok?

I see i'll probably be spending $12 tonight without even leaving the house!

Quote:
Originally posted by Hippo
ArcherAce,
Yes, I baked the wings on the Corsair in the Wing Jig the same way I make all my undercambered slowflyer wings. They really look good with the scale wingtips don't they I'm planning to do a GeeBee the same way soon.
-Dan
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Old Feb 12, 2003, 07:37 AM
The effect is sadly temporary
Hippo's Avatar
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Joined Oct 2001
1,675 Posts
Well, not yet.

I don't have plans available for the Corsair since it's partially based on another design. I'm not sure how I would feel about releasing it. But, I'm really getting a large response on it, so I guess I should figure out how I feel about it.

About Gas ovens. I'm not sure. Is anything in the oven directly exposed to open flame? Obviously you don't want to set the wood on fire. I'm guessing that if you put a cookie tray or something on the bottom shelf to block the fire (assuming that you need to do that) and then put the jig on the middle shelf that you should be okay. I will qualify that by saying two things:

1) Only you know if your oven provides even heating, and accurate temp control.

2) DON'T put anything in your oven if you think it will catch on FIRE!

Good luck,
-Dan

(P.S. The Ignition Temperature for Birch Plywood is between 400 and 500 degrees Fahrenheit if that helps.
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Old Feb 12, 2003, 11:28 AM
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gomarpyle's Avatar
SF Bay Area
Joined Dec 2002
320 Posts
About building the wing jig

I see you offer it as plans or complete. If i were to buy the plans, how much would the materials cost, and how long would it take to build? Could I go to my local lowes and walk out with all of the supplies? After the jig is built, how long does take to make a wing?

Also, can an equal quality two sided wing be made by just using the folding technique?

Thanks
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