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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:49 AM
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United Kingdom, Scotland, Bieldside
Joined Nov 2012
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Ok Max! Sounds like a plan. I was wondering about visibility and maybe black with fluorescent pink tips is a good idea. Thanks for the tip.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 07:06 AM
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United States, PA, Lewistown
Joined Mar 2012
910 Posts
I find that black undersides, happen automatically when you're up high to begin with, but what would happen if you'd loose control of your plane, and it floated away, or even just dove down into a grove of trees /corn field /wheat field . Well, you're going to have one heck of a time trying to find it, if it landed upside down. Generally, when it get's tree'd, it always seems to land with it's belly facing towards you. Just something to think about.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
Let's suppose you take a plane that is designed to be a glider, and you trim it so it glides perfectly. Now you add a bunch of thrust and double the speed and the lift increases dramatically and it wants to go straight up. What else could it do? When you add power to an e-glider and it goes straight up, is that not exactly what we want it to do?
The pitch-up is excessive in stock form, causing a lot of maiden flights to end badly with a power loop into the ground. It is greatly reduced with Paul Naton's decalage mod, which is the equivalent of removing up-elevator trim.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:52 AM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Parkzone Radian @ 1,801 Feet AGL (10 min 21 sec)
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:17 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by kaptondave View Post
The pitch-up is excessive in stock form, causing a lot of maiden flights to end badly with a power loop into the ground. It is greatly reduced with Paul Naton's decalage mod, which is the equivalent of removing up-elevator trim.
My experience was different from everybody else's, and I still don't really know why. I heard all the stories about launch loops and was ready for that, but instead I had to pull back on the stick to keep it out of the dirt. Then it took a bunch of clicks of up elevator to keep it from spontaneously going into a dive, and to level out the glide.

That was the experience on the maiden flight, with everything stock except for the control rod connectors, and the elevator was neutral with the stab. I have gradually moved the CG back to just over 3" and it does everything I want it to. It will not come out of a dive, but it doesn't tuck either, which must mean the CG is pretty close to the neutral point.

All this comes at a cost of having a couple of degrees of down-trim on the elevator. I am not at all unhappy with how it flies, but am still confused as to why mine is so different from everybody else's. If I try to push the CG any further back than 3-1/8 inches, I can still fly it but it will tuck if it goes into a dive. Does the neutral point vary from one Radian to another?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 03:46 PM
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USA, CA, Pismo Beach
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
My experience was different from everybody else's, and I still don't really know why. I heard all the stories about launch loops and was ready for that, but instead I had to pull back on the stick to keep it out of the dirt. Then it took a bunch of clicks of up elevator to keep it from spontaneously going into a dive, and to level out the glide.

That was the experience on the maiden flight, with everything stock except for the control rod connectors, and the elevator was neutral with the stab. I have gradually moved the CG back to just over 3" and it does everything I want it to. It will not come out of a dive, but it doesn't tuck either, which must mean the CG is pretty close to the neutral point.

All this comes at a cost of having a couple of degrees of down-trim on the elevator. I am not at all unhappy with how it flies, but am still confused as to why mine is so different from everybody else's. If I try to push the CG any further back than 3-1/8 inches, I can still fly it but it will tuck if it goes into a dive. Does the neutral point vary from one Radian to another?
Yes I think it may. Probably the largest contributor is the flexibility of the foam which with a little heat can be made to take a set. If you attached something to stiffen the aft end of the fuse you may have installed some "trim" in the process. When I first tried the Paul Naton decalage mod, I discovered the hard way that not all fuselages were created the same and I had installed too much down trim. I agree that adjusting the CG and accepting a small amount of down dialed in on the TX provides for very acceptable performance.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 03:54 PM
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United States, CO, Lakewood
Joined Jan 2011
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Yes, neutral can vary between examples of the radians. The stiffener under the aft fuse can be more or less attached during construction giving the whole rear end a varying degree of angle compared to the wing saddle area. This changes the stab's angle of attack with respect to the wing.

Paul Naton's decalage mod is a great way to alter the H stab so as to reduce the excessive up angle that some radians have from the factory. Other examples from the factory might not have a need for this mod. Paul's video shows how to measure your own plane to see if modifying it would get a more favorable stab angle for your type of flying. Not every plane needs it and not every pilot wants it. Naton has years of experience with sailplanes and knows what he wants and can build what he needs.

It sounds like you have a fairly neutral example of the breed. Nice! After flying mine for a year, I am going to do the mod on an spare fuse and see how she goes.

--Jason
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Joined Aug 2010
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radian fuse

Just finished a similar mod to Mr. Naton using carbon fiber tune instead of the stuff he used. I don't know if the mod caused it or not but the new fuse had a slight hook to the left >1/2" as viewed from the nose and the vertical fin was about 5 degrees from vertical. removed push rods and did the hot water bend and hold trick seems to have been successful, The tube really stiffened things up! Trying to think of a good, light way to stiffen the ailerons and flaps. My old plane got saggy after a few flights. I also put a small bamboo skewer in the vertical fin to stiffen it up. I used the skewer because its sharp point made iu easy to insert. It was epoxied in place and cannot tell it is there but the fin is mush stiffer!
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 04:48 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
3,169 Posts
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Originally Posted by Greywing View Post
If you attached something to stiffen the aft end of the fuse you may have installed some "trim" in the process.
The maiden flight was done without any tail stiffening mods, but I have since put in the arrow shaft. It would be very easy to alter the decalage angle while doing this, but I went out of my way not to. When cutting the slot, I made the center section deeper than the ends, so that when it was glued in, there was little change to the shape of the fuse.

If a person wanted to reduce the decalage angle, he could simply do the opposite of what I did. Make the ends of the slot deeper than the center section. That way, the arrow shaft would alter the shape of the fuse. No change to the stabilizer mount would be necessary.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 08:01 PM
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United States, SC, Charleston
Joined Aug 2011
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Regarding the question of NOISE: I've been flying parkflyer and micro sizes of these electric powered birds either in developing subdivisions where there are paved streets to use as runways or in park areas where houses are a block or two away and people are walking children or dogs around the edge of the area.

Complaints? Only 1 in over 4 years. A kid once came up to my flying buddy and me and said, "Dad doesn't like you flying your planes here." "Why not?" we asked. "What's the problem?" His reply: "Dad and Mom had a back yard party and everybody was looking over the fence and paying more attention to you and your airplanes than they were to the party! Dad didn't like that." We LOVED it! ...and we politely waited until the kid had left to howl with laughter!

Very often people stop to watch and compliment us on our flying, look at the airplanes, and ask how hard it is to fly them and how to get into the hobby. And when gals are walking dogs or pushing baby strollers, they say we give them something interesting and different to watch.

Tom
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by shepflyr View Post

Very often people stop to watch and compliment us on our flying, look at the airplanes, and ask how hard it is to fly them and how to get into the hobby. And when gals are walking dogs or pushing baby strollers, they say we give them something interesting and different to watch.

Tom
Dogs on a leash and kids in strollers are great but loose ones are a hazard. Dogs of all ages and small boys have swarmed my planes on several occasions, and the worst part is that their keepers often seem oblivious. Just yesterday a woman with three small yappers (dogs) just watched s they tried to get at my grounded Radian, and seemed to regard my suggestions that she control them as a foreign concept.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:54 PM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Had a 2.5 hour slope flight yesterday, sorry it was an Easy Glider, which had quite an audiance of people just watching, Dads and kids coming over and people sitting in cars watching and asking me about the plane.

As for kids and dogs threatening the planes, if there seems no regard for controling them, I usually advise the parents that I would appreciate their controlling their, whatever, as I don't want to have to send them a bill for hundreds of dollars in damage to my things. THAT usually gets their attention.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:56 PM
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Joined Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepflyr View Post
Regarding the question of NOISE: I've been flying parkflyer and micro sizes of these electric powered birds either in developing subdivisions where there are paved streets to use as runways or in park areas where houses are a block or two away and people are walking children or dogs around the edge of the area.

Complaints? Only 1 in over 4 years. A kid once came up to my flying buddy and me and said, "Dad doesn't like you flying your planes here." "Why not?" we asked. "What's the problem?" His reply: "Dad and Mom had a back yard party and everybody was looking over the fence and paying more attention to you and your airplanes than they were to the party! Dad didn't like that." We LOVED it! ...and we politely waited until the kid had left to howl with laughter!

Very often people stop to watch and compliment us on our flying, look at the airplanes, and ask how hard it is to fly them and how to get into the hobby. And when gals are walking dogs or pushing baby strollers, they say we give them something interesting and different to watch.

Tom
sounds like you're doing it right!
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 04:08 PM
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fly where I fly

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Had a 2.5 hour slope flight yesterday, sorry it was an Easy Glider, which had quite an audiance of people just watching, Dads and kids coming over and people sitting in cars watching and asking me about the plane.

As for kids and dogs threatening the planes, if there seems no regard for controling them, I usually advise the parents that I would appreciate their controlling their, whatever, as I don't want to have to send them a bill for hundreds of dollars in damage to my things. THAT usually gets their attention.
When the kids are out of school if you fly where I do they are just as likely to pick it up and take it home. Sort of a finders keepers and I will beat you to a pulp if you try to get it back thing! Great way to learn spot landing techniques.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 04:32 PM
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Joined Jan 2013
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First flight today

Well, did my first flight today and it went really well despite the 10-12 MPH gusty winds. Did a couple of hand launch power off glides and was satisfied with the trim and balance and then went for it with the power. Really love this plane! Had a couple of levitating landings that looked pretty cool but kept the pucker factor high.
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