SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Thread Tools
Old Apr 20, 2015, 12:27 AM
KNS is offline
KNS
Find More Posts by KNS
KNS
Registered User
Switzerland, SO, Olten
Joined Dec 2012
429 Posts
Discussion
Features of a perfect plan

I am just going through digitizing a hand drawn plan in Inkscape. I have seen a lot of plans already, and while the vast majority is definitely good enough, I realize that there are some features which can make a plan a joy to work with. And that's in addition to the obvious bits like avoiding missing pieces, or plain errors. I am more talking about full plans to build from, not necessarily the accompanying materials to pre-cut kits.

->For example, I'ld like to see (fairly long) straight scale bars in both X and Y directions - these would be very helpful for spotting distortions to the plans.
->Also, at least a single straight line along each rib pattern would be useful to avoid distortions when gluing the rib outline to the balsa.

Would you have any other idea/recommendation on the type of detail you'ld love to see on a good plan?
KNS is offline Find More Posts by KNS
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 20, 2015, 07:57 AM
epoxyearl is offline
Find More Posts by epoxyearl
Registered User
epoxyearl's Avatar
United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
10,177 Posts
I draw my own straight datum lines on ribs...nobody ever does that...It's a tremendous help in setting up washout, and incidence angles.

Cross sections of a complete assembly at points "a, b, and c,"etc., are a definite plus...Sometimes viewing a side view of a fuselage plan doesn't show the actual 'layers' involved.

I'm laying out a 1/4 scale model now, and my biggest concern is in doing it well enough that a pure novice could complete a successful build. It is difficult to think for others.
epoxyearl is offline Find More Posts by epoxyearl
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Balsa cowls
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 10:44 AM
AndyKunz is online now
Find More Posts by AndyKunz
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
28,115 Posts
Go to Outerzone.com and look at some of the work from the 1930's to 1950's. There are works of art in there.

Andy
AndyKunz is online now Find More Posts by AndyKunz
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 12:14 PM
KNS is offline
KNS
Find More Posts by KNS
KNS
Registered User
Switzerland, SO, Olten
Joined Dec 2012
429 Posts
Thanks for your comment, epoxyearl. Your observation is very much in line with mine, definitely a thing to add to plans. Wonder why this has not been done before.

Andy - you couldbe a tad more specific . There are as of 19:10 CEST 1'416 plans available on outerzone for the years indicated. Please, at least name one of them which ticks all the boxes. I am trying to identify key features (rather than examples) which would be great to have when publishing a plan.
KNS is offline Find More Posts by KNS
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 12:49 PM
AndyKunz is online now
Find More Posts by AndyKunz
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
28,115 Posts
The perfect plan uses multiple line weights to convey information, shows grain details, highlights subassemblies as such, includes multiple perspective views (iso, not just 3-views), has notes for specific recommendations (prop size, battery size/location, rx location) and accurate data for things such as recommended CG range, incidences, dihedral.

I don't think you'll find any one that is perfect, but here are a few folks that I consider at the top of the field for doing most of these right most of the time: Carl Goldberg, Walt Musciano, and Paul Del Gatto. Walt is the only one still among us. Take anything any of them drew and see what I mean.

Andy
AndyKunz is online now Find More Posts by AndyKunz
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 02:28 PM
eflightray is offline
Find More Posts by eflightray
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
14,561 Posts
Features of a perfect plan ?

It should lead to the perfect plane.
eflightray is offline Find More Posts by eflightray
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 05:02 PM
hallo is offline
Find More Posts by hallo
Registered User
Joined Feb 2014
450 Posts
The plans in my collection that I hold most of, is particularly inspiring to look at. Not too many of my plans have that effect, but as I recall they are typically hand drawn with artistic skills and devotion, and with lots of detail sketches and illustrations all around to fill up the spaces. Almost like a painting..

I just had a look at one of my absolute favorites and I noticed something that is also important to me, it's not a blending white background with pure black lines, it's kind of shady grey yellow and it makes it pleasing to look at.
hallo is offline Find More Posts by hallo
Last edited by hallo; Apr 20, 2015 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 07:06 PM
epoxyearl is offline
Find More Posts by epoxyearl
Registered User
epoxyearl's Avatar
United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
10,177 Posts
The plans done by the old Masters are works of Art. My Dream set of plans is of a Fairchild 24R, by Bob Lopshire, writer of Children's books.

Published in a 1978 RCM Magazine, I was fortunate enough to observe the first few flights of that Magnificent Machine....at first glance,the construction seemed overwhelming. -but Mr.Bob said build one piece at a time, until it looks like an airplane...
I don't have a system installed to post pics on this new computer, but when I do......
epoxyearl is offline Find More Posts by epoxyearl
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Balsa cowls
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 07:53 PM
Curare is offline
Find More Posts by Curare
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Jun 2005
4,311 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray View Post
Features of a perfect plan ?

It should lead to the perfect plane.
Ray, what you're talking about is the perfect design, not the perfect plan.

I've seen some absolutely georgeous plans for some models that were all a bit ho-hum in the design department.
Curare is offline Find More Posts by Curare
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2015, 08:43 PM
Hemikiller is offline
Find More Posts by Hemikiller
-insert witty saying here-
Hemikiller's Avatar
United States, CT, Killingworth
Joined Dec 2005
2,004 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
The perfect plan uses multiple line weights to convey information, shows grain details, highlights subassemblies as such, includes multiple perspective views (iso, not just 3-views), has notes for specific recommendations (prop size, battery size/location, rx location) and accurate data for things such as recommended CG range, incidences, dihedral.

I don't think you'll find any one that is perfect, but here are a few folks that I consider at the top of the field for doing most of these right most of the time: Carl Goldberg, Walt Musciano, and Paul Del Gatto. Walt is the only one still among us. Take anything any of them drew and see what I mean.

Andy
Andy nailed it...

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?page=2

For plans, Carl Goldberg was hard to beat. They might be a bit "busy" for some, but The use of line weight and sub assembly drawings really shines. The blue on white made them easy to read too....
Hemikiller is offline Find More Posts by Hemikiller
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 20, 2015, 08:48 PM
Fly Wheel is offline
Find More Posts by Fly Wheel
Ochroma Pyramidale Tekton
Fly Wheel's Avatar
Blackstock, South Carolina
Joined Sep 2007
2,185 Posts
full size renditions of all cut parts so the builder can make new ones if necessary. Tom Hunt's plans are like this.
Fly Wheel is offline Find More Posts by Fly Wheel
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2015, 12:17 AM
KNS is offline
KNS
Find More Posts by KNS
KNS
Registered User
Switzerland, SO, Olten
Joined Dec 2012
429 Posts
Thanks a bunch for all the suggestions and pointers, gentlemen!
Here is the link to the RCM Fairchild I assume you were referring to, epoxyearl.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...H#post31286083
KNS is offline Find More Posts by KNS
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2015, 03:23 AM
epoxyearl is offline
Find More Posts by epoxyearl
Registered User
epoxyearl's Avatar
United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
10,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNS View Post
Thanks a bunch for all the suggestions and pointers, gentlemen!
Here is the link to the RCM Fairchild I assume you were referring to, epoxyearl.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...H#post31286083
Yes, thanks...I have a model from those plans I'm restoring, and I've started a 1/3 scale model..It's interesting how little we actually "see" when looking at plans, until we dissect them, as we're doing now.. The full size parts drawings are an example of that.
Preparing plans for others to use is a challenge, to be sure...Good points,all.
epoxyearl is offline Find More Posts by epoxyearl
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Balsa cowls
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2015, 05:24 AM
eflightray is offline
Find More Posts by eflightray
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
14,561 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curare View Post
Ray, what you're talking about is the perfect design, not the perfect plan.

I've seen some absolutely georgeous plans for some models that were all a bit ho-hum in the design department.
Then the plan wasn't perfect

To me, if you work to the plan, you should end up with a model that flies well, (naturally dependent of the skill of the flier).

The CG range should be correct, likewise the control throws, even recommended prop size for best flight characteristic.

Basically the designer has built and flown the model, (possibly others too), sorted out any problems, and incorporated any changes into the plan before releasing it.

It's the perfect plan.

The other end of the scale can be the free plan that comes with some model magazines. Some appear to be redrawn by someone not related to the designer, just to get something issued.
eflightray is offline Find More Posts by eflightray
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2015, 01:14 PM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
12,163 Posts
If I'm going to scan some plans for input and CAD work I would include some drawn on straight lines with end point hash marks for easy checking. I feel we don't need all the increments along the lines. Just a known length such as 12 inches or 30cm or whatever. Done as "L" shapes in all four corners these can be used for checking for scanner distortion.

On the plans I draw now I make the outline box a set size and print that information on the plan as an aid in letting folks check that their printers are not putting in any distortion in length or overall size.

For example I found that my inkjet printer compresses the prints by a small amount such as .2% or something. I know it works out to just under 1/16 inch over a legal size page. This is easily seen on the border box measurements. So for when I'm printing a plan for myself I've been known to stretch the length of the plan by the amount needed to get the right size border box.

I've worked with enough plans where there were mistakes or just poor size transfers to the point that I typically make parts a little oversize and trim to fit. Wing ribs on curved outline wingtips are perfect examples of this. Now and then you' get a plan where the draughtsman was of a higher caliber and personal standards and the plan is at least as good as a good CAD plan. I've run into such plans all too rarely. But they are a joy when they do surface. The old Dallaire company plans were an example of this fine level of accuracy.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log RC Model World P-40 kittihawk plan feature Wilit run? 353 Electric Warbirds 12 Apr 03, 2011 03:40 AM
Build Log Pete's Perfect Plans - the Bristol Scout for IPS catrancher Scale Kit/Scratch Built 216 Dec 30, 2008 06:04 PM
Help! Finding the perfect plans and about own designs. Newbie125 Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 9 Dec 05, 2008 10:00 PM
Discussion List Your "Perfect" AP Platform's Desired Features critterhunter Aerial Photography 9 Nov 25, 2007 03:56 PM
Rave Plans for "Orangebox" / "Perfection" nmacpart Fuel Plane Talk 1 Sep 15, 2005 06:45 AM