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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Debt limit - The GOP's no-brainer.

Conservative columnist David Brooks on why the GOP can't get to "yes".

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/op...ooks.html?_r=2

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The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.

The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency. A nation makes a sacred pledge to pay the money back when it borrows money. But the members of this movement talk blandly of default and are willing to stain their nationís honor.
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If the debt ceiling talks fail, independents voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans donít take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Rufcut View Post
Conservative columnist David Brooks--<snip>--
Stop right there!

I reject the premise!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:26 AM
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If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred million dollars of revenue increases.

But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

Bingo - nail and head!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred million dollars of revenue increases.

But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. Thatís because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

Bingo - nail and head!
At least you are able to admit the main purpose of government is to redistribute wealth.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:33 AM
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At least you are able to admit the main purpose of government is to redistribute wealth.
The main purpose of government is to govern - when you elect a government in a democracy you effectively give the outfit permission to do as THEY see fit - not you!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:34 AM
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<snicker>, David Brooks, Conservative <snicker>

The US does not have a taxing problem. It has a spending problem.

Much like a drunk, it's the alcohol consumption that is the problem. When we fix the alcohol problem, then we can work on the ratty suit and ugly tie.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiana_Geoff View Post
<snicker>, David Brooks, Conservative <snicker>

The US does not have a taxing problem. It has a spending problem.

Much like a drunk, it's the alcohol consumption that is the problem. When we fix the alcohol problem, then we can work on the ratty suit and ugly tie.
+point, set, and match.

And yet so many (edit) in Government have a problem understanding this very basic concept...
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Last edited by Twizter68; Jul 05, 2011 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Took out "the Left"; some Righties have same problem!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by enginetorque View Post
the main purpose of government is to govern...
lol
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 01:44 PM
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Just wondering about this debt limit thing...

If not now, When?

Shall we raise the debt limit "this time", but not "next time"?
Or maybe we should decide to raise it the next four times but not the fifth time from now?

If it's never lowered and only raised, then why have a debt limit at all?
Every time someone wants to raise the debt so that the government can spend more, then the debt is raised so what is the purpose at all of any kind of debt limit?




If not NOW, WHEN?


If anytime a debt limit is NOT raised, then we will default if spending is not reduced. So why is there ever a debt limit?

Still asking; If not now, when?

Is not the purpose of a debt limit to STOP government from spending more than we have?
Is this not as good a time as any to STOP this government from spending more than we have?
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana_Geoff View Post
<snicker>, David Brooks, Conservative <snicker>

The US does not have a taxing problem. It has a spending problem.

Much like a drunk, it's the alcohol consumption that is the problem. When we fix the alcohol problem, then we can work on the ratty suit and ugly tie.
Let's start with politician's perks and military spending.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highflight View Post
Just wondering about this debt limit thing...

If not now, When?

Shall we raise the debt limit "this time", but not "next time"?
Or maybe we should decide to raise it the next four times but not the fifth time from now?

If it's never lowered and only raised, then why have a debt limit at all?
Every time someone wants to raise the debt so that the government can spend more, then the debt is raised so what is the purpose at all of any kind of debt limit?




If not NOW, WHEN?


If anytime a debt limit is NOT raised, then we will default if spending is not reduced. So why is there ever a debt limit?

Still asking; If not now, when?

Is not the purpose of a debt limit to STOP government from spending more than we have?
Is this not as good a time as any to STOP this government from spending more than we have?
To some extent inflation will increase the need for spending.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
To some extent inflation will increase the need for spending.
Oh, OK. Then why not just do away with any kind of debt ceiling whatsoever?
What's the point of having a debt ceiling if inflation will fix any problems that ever come up with regard to spending?

I may be a little rusty on this, but can someone tell me; has the US debt ceiling ever been decreased?
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:44 PM
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I don't think the Republicans are prepared to blow both feet off, their feet have been smarting for some time. They will be blamed if there is a default, and by the last group of voters who they have sway with.

I look for a compromise, real soon, otherwise, the calamity will be so heavy around their necks as to bring them down to the ground for decades.

And the rank and file Republicans will point fingers at the tea party. End of that phony grass roots venture.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:51 PM
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The left is hoping that the conservatives fall for their arguments. The sky will not fall if we do not up the debt limit.......but it will if we don't put instant brakes on the spending.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
Let's start with politician's perks and military spending.
Why? They are pocket change to the real problems.
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