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Old Jun 14, 2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Hey there's nothing wrong with clones... except the low quality
I'll take exception to that statement. I have two clones and the quality differences are like night and day.

I did a "stupid" and bought a Hausler.
Then I snagged a set of Flasher mechanics from RC Aerodyne.

One difference isin the side frames. The Hausler CF sheet is thin and the edges are "ragged". The Flasher side frames are slightly thicker, stiffer, and the edges are nice and clean like you see on quality printed circuit boards.

Another difference is the rotor heads. The Hausler head was plastic (I went FBL after a crash) and the Flasher is metal with a nice blue anodize that is a shade darker than my Tarot FBL head.

Smaller differences are in the boom supports and TR boxes, but over all the RC Aerodyne is much better.

With that being said, both air frames fly very well.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 12:36 PM
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Sure, you can always find quality differences, but I'll stand by my assessment that for example, my Align 450 Pro is overall better in quality than the HK copy. There were some parts on the HK that I consider better, but overall the Trex is the better quality bird. I shot about half of a comparison video a while back, but there's a lot to discuss, and I don't know if I'll ever finish the HK vs. Align video, in spite of promises to my viewers.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 03:36 PM
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Having read so much about HK clones I decided to get an HK500TT to compare with my T-Rex 500e which has been upgraded with TT tail. The only parts of the HK version that I consider to be better than the Align one are the frame screws (larger hex sockets, so don't seem to round out like the Align ones do) and the metal servo mounting brackets instead of plastic ones. Parts that I consider acceptable are the basic frame structure, the tail boom and TT drive shaft, the front end boom mounting block and TT drive gears, and the landing skids.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Sure, you can always find quality differences, but I'll stand by my assessment that for example, my Align 450 Pro is overall better in quality than the HK copy. There were some parts on the HK that I consider better, but overall the Trex is the better quality bird. I shot about half of a comparison video a while back, but there's a lot to discuss, and I don't know if I'll ever finish the HK vs. Align video, in spite of promises to my viewers.
I was offering a counter-point to a previous state me that ALL clones are inherently inferior.

What this really boils down to is price point. If money is no object, than you can buy what you want. If, on the other hand, you are forced to live within a strict budget, then cost is always the prime consideration and this is where the clones come in to play. Laying aside the myriad of quality issues for a moment, clones are actually bringing more people into the hobby in much the same way that IBM PC clones fueled the digital explosion during the 1990's.

With that being said, as builders and pilots, it is up to us as a community to get the real word out about clones. We need to let people know which clones are acceptable, and which clones are not acceptable. This is a win-win situation. Word of mouth and real world reviews are much more effective than some ad agency hype.

What saddens me is this pervasive clone bashing that borders on out right snobbery. Instead of shrieking in terror and hollering "Burn the Heritic!", what we should be doing is giving the rookie a break by helping him get his money's worth out of his purchase.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 07:01 PM
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There are some clone products, that are fairly good.

Granted the morality of them is questionable.

I'm talking clone YGE's, clone v-bars.

The one thing I think you still have to put up with is, when you pay so little, QC probably gets sacrificed. So I guess one is rolling the dice more as to whether one gets a good unit or not.

Now the other thing is for mechanical stuff, if the cloner uses softer alloys from the start.... well...
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:57 AM
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Personally, I'm more wary of clone electronics than I am of clone mechanical bits, for at least with the mechanics I can see/feel where they're not up to scratch.

By the way, wasn't Align once a clone of the Raptor?
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by spykez View Post
There are some clone products, that are fairly good.

Granted the morality of them is questionable.

I'm talking clone YGE's, clone v-bars.

The one thing I think you still have to put up with is, when you pay so little, QC probably gets sacrificed. So I guess one is rolling the dice more as to whether one gets a good unit or not.

Now the other thing is for mechanical stuff, if the cloner uses softer alloys from the start.... well...
You're spot on. I'm wary of clone electronics too. I must say that so far the only time I've been bitten has been through my own error...

However, I have seen knock off electronics in other areas that don't cut the mustard.

With that said, over the weekend I finally got a Tarot TT upgrade for my Hughes 500, and I like what I see. Bearings are nice and smooth, fit and finish is excellent, and this is a major plus, the tail rotor shaft has an actual flat cut out for the set screw. I added a Tarot metal pitch slider and a metal pitch arm, and this TR is "tight" (no slop) and very smooth.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:32 AM
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The other thing about some of the clone stuff is they may be using defective parts that were rejected by the OEM manufacturer for some reason. Instead of recycling and melting the parts down the unscrupulous recycler resells them as originals.

That happens a lot with the electronic components. Plus they may use the defective parts in the fakes and knockoff items, Metal alloys can be a problem if the OEM rejected a lot because of the wrong alloy, casting flaws, or out of tolerance and someone shady sells the things off as original.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:37 AM
Where's the swimming pool
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For all we know, the same factories in China could be making the same bits, and selling the stuff not meeting QC for the brand name as clones, or selling surplus as clones.

Didn't the factory making YGE's in China do the dirt on them? Or so I heard?
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:11 PM
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its more likely they are selling the blueprints or molds/cnc pattern to other factories to make a quick buck (OEMs do this all the time apparently, which is why you can never keep your design safe by producing in China)
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by abenn View Post
Personally, I'm more wary of clone electronics than I am of clone mechanical bits, for at least with the mechanics I can see/feel where they're not up to scratch.

By the way, wasn't Align once a clone of the Raptor?
No, the Raptor used mechanical mixing. The first Align chopper was eCCPM, and was basically an upgrade to the Shogun from EF Helicopters of California. The Align Trex basically put EF out of business, the design was so much better. The Shogun is still sold today under another name though. With modern electrics, it can fly pretty well. All mine needs is a new motor.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abenn View Post
By the way, wasn't Align once a clone of the Raptor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
No, the Raptor used mechanical mixing. The first Align chopper was eCCPM, and was basically an upgrade to the Shogun from EF Helicopters of California.
I seem to remember a long time ago (maybe as much as 8 years or so) that a friend of mine had a couple of 450 size, or maybe even smaller, Raptor lookalikes. I remember clearly the big pitch cantilever with the roll servo built into it.

I thought he referred to them as "the little T-rexes".

Anybody an idea what those were?

Brgds, Bert
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Brutus1967 View Post
I seem to remember a long time ago (maybe as much as 8 years or so) that a friend of mine had a couple of 450 size, or maybe even smaller, Raptor lookalikes. I remember clearly the big pitch cantilever with the roll servo built into it.

I thought he referred to them as "the little T-rexes".

Anybody an idea what those were?

Brgds, Bert
Interesting.. The first Trex I can remember is the XL, which had eCCPM with ridiculous linkages and bell cranks. There were two ways that I remember to do mechanical mixing... One is like you describe where the whole servo tray moves up and down. The other is where the main shaft has a linkage inside that moves the washout up and down, which is how the Shogun worked. I don't remember if Align ever used that method.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 02:40 PM
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Trex 450 SA I think? I still got one somewhere...looks just like a larger thunder tiger raptor...just scaled down...
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 03:03 PM
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Trex 450 SA I think? I still got one somewhere...looks just like a larger thunder tiger raptor...just scaled down...
The SA was the one that was partially assembled and sold with the motor but no servos. It was the same kit as the SE but with a few cheaper parts. My first CP was a Trex 450 SA back in 2008.
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