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Old Jan 19, 2013, 09:20 PM
Mad on everything Swash
Joined Jan 2012
77 Posts
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Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
The VWD is an excellent tool for people that like to make experiments with wings and find out the best wing design.
I like your test rig and wing design... do you have any video running and would you have any data to suggest improvements that your willing to share ?
i really like your wing design...your an excellent inventor kjell
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 03:13 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Mallorca Spain
Joined Nov 2005
1,111 Posts
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Originally Posted by Lil aus View Post
I like your test rig and wing design... do you have any video running and would you have any data to suggest improvements that your willing to share ?
i really like your wing design...your an excellent inventor kjell
No problem. If you are willing to learn from my 40 years of experience in Tail and Wing experimenting, I am open to give you and others part of my knowledge’s. The only way to get good results is to make comparing tests. For the moment I don’t know anybody that can mathematically calculate the size and the flapping frequency of a Tail or a Wing.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:07 AM
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Joined Sep 2007
488 Posts
Wiggle Drive is an interesting mechanism, but it is not for flapping wing.
Tyhis is my 35 years of experience in flapping wing experimenting. Including full scale Ornithopters.

It is not necsessary for flapping wing.
Active articulation of the wing too.

Adaptive Articulated Ornithopter Wing (0 min 32 sec)



MANNED ORNITHOPTER (0 min 54 sec)
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 09:04 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Mallorca Spain
Joined Nov 2005
1,111 Posts
[QUOTE=Velko Velkov;23869052]Wiggle Drive is an interesting mechanism, but it is not for flapping wing.
Tyhis is my 35 years of experience in flapping wing experimenting. Including full scale Ornithopters.


Try to install a Wiggle–Drive in your Ornithopter instead of the Crank-Drive you are using. I think they will fly.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 09:50 AM
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[QUOTE=KJELL;23870165]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velko Velkov View Post
Wiggle Drive is an interesting mechanism, but it is not for flapping wing.
Tyhis is my 35 years of experience in flapping wing experimenting. Including full scale Ornithopters.


Try to install a Wiggle–Drive in your Ornithopter instead of the Crank-Drive you are using. I think they will fly.
You have flying (or running) full scale Ornithopter ?!

For my Ornithopters the problem is the weight of using materials and no more.
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Last edited by Velko Velkov; Jan 20, 2013 at 12:06 PM.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:01 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Mallorca Spain
Joined Nov 2005
1,111 Posts
[QUOTE=Velko Velkov;23870455]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJELL View Post

You have flying (or running) full scale Ornithopter ?!

For my Ornithopters the problem is the weight and no more.
The Wiggle-Drive is using less moving parts and is giving active wing twist from less weight.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 04:49 PM
Mad on everything Swash
Joined Jan 2012
77 Posts
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Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
No problem. If you are willing to learn from my 40 years of experience in Tail and Wing experimenting, I am open to give you and others part of my knowledge’s. The only way to get good results is to make comparing tests. For the moment I don’t know anybody that can mathematically calculate the size and the flapping frequency of a Tail or a Wing.
So your telling me you have no math for this special system, no formulas or even graphs ?
So Everything you've done so far has been guess work....40 yrs worth
Maybe i was a little hasty to pay the compliment
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
No problem. If you are willing to learn from my 40 years of experience in Tail and Wing experimenting, I am open to give you and others part of my knowledge’s. The only way to get good results is to make comparing tests. For the moment I don’t know anybody that can mathematically calculate the size and the flapping frequency of a Tail or a Wing.
Kjell,
"Ignorance is bliss!", be happy, build a better drive or custom doorknob. There are plenty of Ornithopters and 'drives' designed with math,even with just algebra and trig. How about the "Sunbird", Festo "SmartBird" ,James DeLaurier's and others, even my own. Have you forgotten so soon? or are you fishing for 'Kjellians'.
George
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:04 AM
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Joined Sep 2007
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[QUOTE=KJELL;23870165]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velko Velkov View Post
Wiggle Drive is an interesting mechanism, but it is not for flapping wing.
Tyhis is my 35 years of experience in flapping wing experimenting. Including full scale Ornithopters.


Try to install a Wiggle–Drive in your Ornithopter instead of the Crank-Drive you are using...
To experiment Your ideas ?!

Try to install a Wiggle–Drive in your full scale Ornithopter.
The models with weight 0.2 - 0.5 kg are not criteria.
After tests inform us about results, please.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:53 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Mallorca Spain
Joined Nov 2005
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Originally Posted by Lil aus View Post
So your telling me you have no math for this special system, no formulas or even graphs ?
So Everything you've done so far has been guess work....40 yrs worth
Maybe i was a little hasty to pay the compliment
I don’t think you can call “guess work” testing and comparing the thrust / power consumption of hundreds of different natural fish tails with handmade tails. I can’t make the mathematical formulas. Only one friend tried to make the calculation, but with more than 25% error. This type of calculations is no valid.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Hey guys, please pay more respect to Mr. Kjell.

I personally will be happy if I reach his ages and if I reach it, to be in Mr. Kjell's good shape and productiveness.

Everybody of us is alive human been and respectively is able of making mistakes

Far not everybody here are mathematicians able to navigate in the vortices' mathematical theory started somewhere around WW2 times from Theodore von Kármán.

Just extrapolate where the World is today.

We don't know, doesn't equivalent to doesn't exist .
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Hey guys, please pay more respect to Mr. Kjell.

I personally will be happy if I reach his ages and if I reach it, to be in Mr. Kjell's good shape and productiveness.

Everybody of us is alive human been and respectively is able of making mistakes

Far not everybody here are mathematicians able to navigate in the vortices' mathematical theory started somewhere around WW2 times from Theodore von Kármán.

Just extrapolate where the World is today.

We don't know, doesn't equivalent to doesn't exist .
Otto,

I pay respect to Mr. Kjell, but I have my reproof to his ideas.

Velko
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:24 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Mallorca Spain
Joined Nov 2005
1,111 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Hey guys, please pay more respect to Mr. Kjell.

I personally will be happy if I reach his ages and if I reach it, to be in Mr. Kjell's good shape and productiveness.

Everybody of us is alive human been and respectively is able of making mistakes

Far not everybody here are mathematicians able to navigate in the vortices' mathematical theory started somewhere around WW2 times from Theodore von Kármán.

Just extrapolate where the World is today.

We don't know, doesn't equivalent to doesn't exist .
Thanks for your comments.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:08 PM
Mad on everything Swash
Joined Jan 2012
77 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Hey guys, please pay more respect to Mr. Kjell.

I personally will be happy if I reach his ages and if I reach it, to be in Mr. Kjell's good shape and productiveness.

Everybody of us is alive human been and respectively is able of making mistakes

Far not everybody here are mathematicians able to navigate in the vortices' mathematical theory started somewhere around WW2 times from Theodore von Kármán.

Just extrapolate where the World is today.

We don't know, doesn't equivalent to doesn't exist .
Heah Seagull
I mean no disrespect to Kjell, I'm just searching for some answers to complex questions, wether they are in the form of math or even just descriptions of observations....its all good! his talent to experiment and invent is very good
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJELL;23881587
Thanks for your comments.
You are welcome Sir .Proud to be one of 'Kjellians' guys, as George described us
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