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Old Dec 27, 2007, 09:47 AM
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Seeking Berkeley 72" Cessna 170 Builders/Flyers

Does anyone here have:

1. 72" 1:6 Cessna 170 from Bekeley Models, circa mid-50s, or
2. The reproduction of that kit from PassTime Hobbies?

I am building the reproduction kit and am looking for both a few points of construction advice from those who have built either kit, and/or input on flight characteristics from those who have flown or are flying one or the other.

I would welcome replies here or via PM... thanks for your consideration and any replies!
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Last edited by rallison; Dec 27, 2007 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Old Jan 06, 2008, 06:53 PM
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BTW, another reason I'm seeking builders and flyers of this model (or the PassTime Hobbies reproduction of it) is to see if any of them are users of RealFlight G3.5 or 4; a talented user who goes by the name of 'CrashedAgain' has created a 3D model of the kit for use in the R/C sim, and would welcome feedback about how this custom virtual model flies as compared to the actual model. See more at the Cessna 170B EA swap file page. .

I think he did a great job, per the attached pics...
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 09:47 PM
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I built the similar Berkeley Cessna 172 in the mid 50's with single channel escapement R/C and glow Torpedo 23 or something like that. Didn't survive maiden flight. These large Berkeley models used an interesting, but heavy, planked construction to get a smooth simulated aluminum skin look. You didn't mention how you intend to fly the Cessna, electric powered, IC powered etc. I have a 48" w/s elecric powered Cessna 140, designed by Pat Tritle, that weighs 19 ounces and flies slow and scale like. It is very forgiving and does nice ROG's, loops, rolls and even a little inverted flight, touch and goes and 3 point landings. A friend has a larger heavier 1/4 scale Cessna 140 electric conversion also built from plans that flies much the same. If you have experience flying tail dragger high wing models, you should have little trouble flying the 170, if you are inexperienced, you might consider buying the ARF E-Flight Taylorcraft and powering it with the E-flight 480 motor, learn to fly it well and prepare yourself to fly the big 170 either by IC or electric power. BTW, I just maidened my electric powered 37.5" 17 ounce w/s Aeronca Sedan made from Berkeley plans obtained from Aerodyne Online.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Challenged
I built the similar Berkeley Cessna 172 in the mid 50's with single channel escapement R/C and glow Torpedo 23 or something like that. Didn't survive maiden flight. These large Berkeley models used an interesting, but heavy, planked construction to get a smooth simulated aluminum skin look.
...

If you have experience flying tail dragger high wing models, you should have little trouble flying the 170, if you are inexperienced, you might consider buying the ARF E-Flight Taylorcraft and powering it with the E-flight 480 motor, learn to fly it well and prepare yourself to fly the big 170 either by IC or electric power. BTW, I just maidened my electric powered 37.5" 17 ounce w/s Aeronca Sedan made from Berkeley plans obtained from Aerodyne Online.
E,

Thanks for your reply. I got started with this reproduction of the Berkeley 170 because my dad passed on to me the remnants of the original kit that he'd started in the 50's and never finished. The PassTime short kit is almost identical in construction, other than being designed for 3-channel flight, which I'm further modfying to add ailerons. I do expect it to be on the heavy side--around 7 pounds if glow powered (I'm still debating about E vs. IC).

Sorry to hear you lost yours on the maiden. Keeping my own fingers crossed.

It's is still in the early construction stages, and won't be my first taildragger, as I'm about ready to start covering a Senior Telemaster and expect to adjust to taildragging with that bird. But I've had my eye on the E-Flight Taylorcraft for a couple of months and very much appreciate the recommendation.

Your Aeronca is a real beaut; I have such a soft spot for these scale GA planes...

Thanks again,

- Rick
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 10:33 PM
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I have just started building the Laser Design Services version of this kit. Your is the first thing I've found about other's efforts. How did yours turn out? How was your maiden flight?
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Old Dec 26, 2013, 05:36 PM
Edubarca
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As with all Berkeley models, they are excellently engineered and plans are a work of art. Also, they flew beautifully as long as you can pass the test of building them. They always had a very complex structure with lots of tiny pieces. The Cessna 170 is a "must build" for me one fine day. My late father flew a full size Cessna 170 way back in 52 (I was 6) from Wichita to BogotŠ through Central America. The Berkeley Cessna 170 flies very well, as all Struck's designs. I have seen some locally and they fly like trainers. You can use modern glow engine, a .40 would be a good choice in my opinion and at my elevation of 2.650 meters. Electrics if you like them (I don.t). I would reinforce the wing for today's flying. Four channels is fine. Good luck and let us know how you go with this most classic model.
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Old Dec 26, 2013, 07:41 PM
Two left thumbs
Muncie, IN
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I have the W.E. Technical Services version of the plan, but have not built it. Since I don't have the kit plan to compare it with, I don't know how many changes Bill Effinger (Berkeley Models owner) made to Henry Struck's original design. Supposedly they were significantly updated.

E-C, what happened to the Aeronca Sedan for which I sent you scans of the die crushed parts sheets?

Geoff
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Old Dec 26, 2013, 09:04 PM
Edubarca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffinIN View Post
I have the W.E. Technical Services version of the plan, but have not built it. Since I don't have the kit plan to compare it with, I don't know how many changes Bill Effinger (Berkeley Models owner) made to Henry Struck's original design. Supposedly they were significantly updated.

E-C, what happened to the Aeronca Sedan for which I sent you scans of the die crushed parts sheets?

Geoff
The WE Technical Services Cessna 170 is very different from the original Berkeley kit plan.I know this because I have this plan also. Effinger changed a lot of the original Cessna, he redrew the plans and not to a very high quality. If you want the kit plan, you can downloaded free from outerzone. I myself would build from the original kit plan. It includes all the parts or can be obtained from the plan easily.
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Old Dec 27, 2013, 10:36 PM
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I downloaded the kit plan from outerzone. The one from Laser Design Services is very similar. You suggested a .40 size engine. I have an OS 55AX engine & was thinking of using it. It's heavier but with more power. I'm concerned about CG though. Any thoughts?
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 07:26 AM
Edubarca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huyettmeh View Post
I downloaded the kit plan from outerzone. The one from Laser Design Services is very similar. You suggested a .40 size engine. I have an OS 55AX engine & was thinking of using it. It's heavier but with more power. I'm concerned about CG though. Any thoughts?
Good choice of engine. It is always better to overpower a little than under-power, especially a large heavy airplane. However, This model has nice wing area and floats beautifully. As for the CG follow the plans. Mr. Struck was a genius and he knew what he was doing. A little nose heavy (not much) is better, You may or may not know that the CG should be checked with an empty tank but all the rest items installed. One final advice that has helped me with all my models for the last 55 years: Try to build as light as possible without sacrificing strength. A light airplane ALWAYS flies better. And finally, do strengthen the wing because today's flying with much powerful engines than those used in the 50s, puts a lot of strain to the wing structure especially if you plan to install ailerons, something I would do myself with a couple of small servos installed under the wing directly behind each aileron. Good luck and happy new 2014!!
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 09:05 AM
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Appreciate your comments. I'm not sure how to go about strengthening the wings. Suggestions? And yes, I do plan ailerons. Was thinking of flaps too. Is that overkill? Also found it interesting that the original was for freeflight, control line or RC! And RC had just rudder & throttle. Things have changed a lot!
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 09:30 AM
Edubarca
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Hi.

Just extend the plywood dihedral joiners at least two more ribs. I would also add webs between both spars and between each rib. Just make sure the grain is vertical. I would also make the wing struts functional as in the real 170. I wouldn't use flaps myself, This type of model usually doesn't need them, however, it would be an interesting experiment. This particular kit was only designed for free flight or radio, not controline which was an exception with Berkeley models. This is done in order to catch all types of markets, especially in those times when radio was in its infancy and free flight and control line were kings. I suppose he didn't install control line feature due to the type and size of this model. We live a privileged era in which we have USD$20.00 radio control systems, beautiful and extremely powerful IC engines at dirt cheap prices and also electrics (for those who like them, I don't!!) AND finally we have technology which allow us to meet nice people all over the world and get plans and advice for free from experienced modelers worldwide. We do live a privileged era. By the way, I'm starting a Keil Kraft Southerner old timer for my daugter Paloma. She is 23 and wants to learn to build and fly model airplanes. Let me know any more concerns you might have on this Cessna.
EDUARDO
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 03:03 PM
Two left thumbs
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The W.E. version has ailerons.
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 03:12 PM
Edubarca
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Yes indeed. Easy to adapt them to the kit plan which I still prefer.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 11:34 AM
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Pat Tritle offers a short-kit for a 40+" C-170 that flies slow and scale-like on a small outrunner and lightweight RC gear. Recommend that denizens of this forum check out Pat's build threads on the Scale Electric Plane forum. Go to his website and click on the blue model listings, they'll take you to build threads with pictures on Scale Electric Plane forum

http://www.patscustom-models.com/
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