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Old Mar 24, 2014, 10:07 PM
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United States, CA, Santee
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New to 4 Channel - Aileron/Rudder Mixing Questions

Hello all. I picked up a couple used electric planes over the weekend, and I have a couple questions. These are my first 4 channel planes (I've been flying 3 channel for a while now). The first is a Multiplex FunCub which my 14 year old son will be flying with a 72MHz Hitec Flash 5 transmitter. The second is a Multiplex Easy Star conversion w/ ailerons and brushless motor which I'll be flying with a Spektrum DX6i transmitter.

I'm curious about aileron/rudder mixing. Seems like a great option to be able to fly "hands-off" the rudder control stick for making turns. In fact, a little "up-elevator" at the same time seems like it would be a good thing for turning as well. Both transmitters seem to support some mixing functions.

1) If you program aileron/rudder mixing, can you still independently use ailerons for rolls without moving the rudder? For example, could I still do a knife edge roll without turning left or right?

2) What percentage of aileron to rudder movement makes sense? For example, If I move the ailerons 100%, I should have the rudder move what percentage?

3) If I wanted to mix a little "up-elevator" in also for turns only, can you do that without causing a "down-elevator" response when rolling in the opposite direction?

Thanks for your help. I'm new to ailerons and channel mixing, so be kind with your responses . Please note that the FunCub also has flaps, but questions concerning those will be saved for another day...
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 10:44 PM
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cmdl's Avatar
United States, CA, Rosemead
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why don't you try without the mix first and see how you like it? same goes for flaps (even though you haven't asked yet).
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 11:33 PM
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I've been reading other posts on the subject, and honstly I'm torn. While I know that technically I'd rather be a purist and throw all control surfaces independently, the truth of the matter is that my hand/eye coordination has never been my strong suit, and my kids can kick my behind all day long when it comes to that kind of motor skills. That said, maybe computer radios are the difference between flying and not flying for re-treads like me . Like you said, maybe I should just try it the old fashiond way and fall back on the computer assist if I need to.

I'm still wondering though, if I do a aileron>rudder mix with the DX6i, does that mean that every time I throw ailerons I will also throw rudder? I don't want that if I just want to do a simple roll. Maybe I want a rudder>aileron mix instead? Am I on the right track?

And to clarify my last point, can I mix in little up-elevator with rudder or aileron to avoid nose drop during a turn? Obviously I don't want to create a down-rudder scenario for a turn in the opposite direction.
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 11:42 PM
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United States, MS, Horn Lake
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I've got similar questions (I can't believe I came on here looking for this sort of information, and the top post in the forum was pertinent to what I was looking for).

I've been flying helis for a couple of years and am more knowledgeable about helis. My only plane, a standard-sized PZ t-28, tends to drop in turns. My tendency is to apply down elevator, but that really just makes the turn sharper. I realize that rudder in the opposite direction of the turn brings the nose back up. However, I wondered if there was something I could do with mixing to counteract, though I didn't know how I would keep the mix from affecting a roll unless I tied into switches. I've never really used mixing with helis except with a 120 SR and the mix was just a recommendation I received, not something I created on my own. Therefore, I'm extremely inexperienced in regards to determining appropriate mixes and setting them up but would like to learn more.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 12:17 AM
Art Schmitz
United States, TN, Crossville
Joined Jan 2012
392 Posts
10% rudder is a good place to start.
Never tried the elevator / turn mix.
Your rudder will work separately, but not the ailerons.
Most radios allow you to switch the CAR on and off.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 03:04 AM
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If I understand correctly, I think the DX6i gives me the option to aileron>rudder mix or rudder>aileron mix. If I'm not all wrong on this, I think that one of those two options would allow me to do 10% rudder when throwing the aileron stick. Anyone know which one?

Hmmm..... OK, I think I'm starting to get the picture.. If I mix aileron and rudder on the aileron stick, I can no longer do an ordinary roll with the aileron stick unless I program the mixing with an on/off on a switch. I don't know if I can do that on the DX6i. Can mixing be programmed on an on/off switch?

Wow. It's starting to seem like its simpler to just get used to using ailerons/rudder for turns and just the ailerons for rolls.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 03:11 AM
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You have a mix switch on the DX6i but I agree...it is simpler to just use rudder with ailerons when you turn.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 03:16 AM
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United States, MI, Monroe
Joined Jun 2009
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Learn to fly controlling all surfaces first.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 04:14 AM
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United States, NC, Newport
Joined Sep 2012
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I wouldn't bother with the ail/rud mix. You probably will want to do a flap/elev mix on the one with flaps though.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 09:51 AM
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Yes, you can have a switch to turn the mix on/off. It's right on the mix screen.

Yes, you can mix up elevator with both left and right aileron, as you choose the amount and direction of the mixes for both directions of the master channel. But this mix well not help keep the plane level throughout the turn, as even after you're done rolling for the turn, you still have to compensate the change in lift vector by maintaining some up elevator until you apply opposite aileron to level out. Then you'll have to fight a tendency to climb rather than just releasing the up elevator. Come to think of it, I wouldn't bother with the rudder/aileron mix either for a similar reason, unless the plane has bad adverse yaw.

As for flap/elevator mix, that depends on the plane. On the 2 planes I've flown regularly that have flaps, they ballooned if I extended them while going too fast, but needed no trim change at reasonable approach and landing speed. Just have to experiment and see what it needs. Your model may vary!
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 09:56 AM
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Oh yeah, sstephenson, did you pick up those planes at the Weedwackers swap meet? How was it? I had to stay away. Too much stuff already!
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 10:34 AM
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Thanks a million guys. Great info here, and very helpful. The more I consider it, I think that adding mixing to a switch function is just adding one more thing to have to remember. I'm better off learning to use both sticks in a turn than I would be trying to remember to switch mixing "off" when I want to do a roll.


And yes xmech2k, I did pick up the FunCub at the Weedwacker's swap meet (the Easy Star was a Craigslist find). My kids and I had a great time there. Super nice bunch of guys. An awesome array of planes and gear. It was a great way to spend a Saturday morning! Not the place to be though if you're trying not to spend money
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 10:56 AM
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The purpose of adding mixing to the controls, setting expo, etc. is to adjust the transmitter to help in controlling your plane. At this time you don't know what help, if any, you might need. You are just guessing. Fly your plane for a while. Then if there are certain tendencies that need corrections, you can determine whether mixing will help with some of them.

The beginner setting on planes like the Apprentice and Delta Ray uses some mixing of the elevator with the turn controls to help the beginner. Most flyers find this mixing to be a nuisance once they learn how to fly. It makes controlling the plane for more advanced maneuvers more difficult, rather than easier.
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephenson View Post
If I understand correctly, I think the DX6i gives me the option to aileron>rudder mix or rudder>aileron mix. If I'm not all wrong on this, I think that one of those two options would allow me to do 10% rudder when throwing the aileron stick. Anyone know which one?
.
In stead of telling you to learn to use the rudder I'll answer your question.

You would want to activate the aileron >rudder mix....when you use the aileron the rudder moves in the same direction making a coordinated turn. I would choose (minus) -30% right and left rudder. This doesn't mean the rudder will travel 30% but it can depending on how much travel the ailerons make. You can assign this mix to any switch offered in the mix menu.....just scroll through them. I would pick the gear switch since I don't suppose your have retracting landing gear. Flip it on or off and you should also be able to do your rolls with it on.

Good Luck!!
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Old Mar 25, 2014, 11:52 AM
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Thanks guys.

Thanks PRNDL for answering my question about Aileron>Rudder vs Rudder>Aileron!
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