Originally Posted by baddb1

Once the little bit of wind catches the wing and gets up under it, the opposing wing tip digs into the water and keeps me from going anywhere. If I try to speed up the Icon just spins around the wingtip thats in the water. I think wing sponsons would help?!

I think closswind, one of triggers, causes such behavior.
From our experiences, model planes like IKON-A5, having large lateral area, are hard to take off and landing in crosswind.
If your flying field arrows a direction to take off and landing dead ahead against wind, you will have no problem, except to be attentive to waves.
I heard from a real pilot, also my friend, real planes do this.
Of course, as in former responses mentioned, antitorque kicked up by prop causes left wing tip touching down in the water easily.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Lancer31

Another possibility, for maintaining stable condition, during takeoff & landing, would be a wing-leveler. Such a system could consist of a single rate-gyro, which can be switched on or off, to control the aileron servos, during takeoff & landing phases. The "magic" trick of a wing-leveler is that its gyro-axis is canted exactly 55 degrees up, with respect to the horizontal centerline of the fuselage. What that does is to respond to any gust-caused upset of the model, whether in the yaw or roll mode, and give aileron to correct it.

While it may well be necessary to add spray-rails to the bow edges, to help control how the water reacts with the hull, and maybe greater span/volume to the sponsons, a wing-leveler system has the advantage of being able to respond instantly to the problem! (Even faster than Shigetyann, and his good-flying racer friends, especially when it is 0 degrees C, at the pond)!

When I have this issue with a flying boat, it happens when the model is not moving enough for the ailerons to lift the wing, at all.

Thus, it would not matter if you had a wing leveller, or not, as the wing leveller will only function once you are moving fast enough to get enough aileron effect to lift the wing that is dragging the water.

And when the wing tip (or even a sunken tip float on a model other than the Icon being discussed here) is dragging deeply in the water, the model will go around and around and never left the wing, no matter if you OR the wing leveller is trying to raise the wing.....

Some models respond well to a blast of power and a large rudder input and you can lift the wing that way. And some don't.

Originally Posted by SON OF PALEFACE

if you watch the vids you will see how a bit of speed works

Seplanes rarely suffer from this issue being discussed if they are moving along with some speed up on the step of the hull or nearly on step.

However, at some point you have to be able to taxi slowly. In close to other folks and models on the shore, turning around after a landing run. positioning for a takeoff run, etc. That is when the sponsons really need to work better dealing with a crosswind and in those cases, speed will not help.

Originally Posted by Thomas B

Seplanes rarely suffer from this issue being discussed if they are moving along with some speed up on the step of the hull or nearly on step.

However, at some point you have to be able to taxi slowly. In close to other folks and models on the shore, turning around after a landing run. positioning for a takeoff run, etc. That is when the sponsons really need to work better dealing with a crosswind and in those cases, speed will not help.

Obviously.....but with carfull positioning while you have control , you can go to a position that leads to getting where you want to be....if you get my 'drift'

I wonder if extending the water rudder a bit further down would help as well?

It probab wood , but wood then be easier to rip off on debris....cant wait for mine 2 arrive

if anything i'd extend the length of the water rudder, not the depth, that would give it more authority for sure, and not a bad idea... but the offset of that is the additional load on the steerage servo...

Originally Posted by AussieHoppy

if anything i'd extend the length of the water rudder, not the depth, that would give it more authority for sure, and not a bad idea... but the offset of that is the additional load on the steerage servo...

As I promised, here MANUAL

my assemble job is in pause mode....i cut out ailerons and flaps and inserted 4 wing servos....next step .....??

If you want to extend the rudder down....simply glue a skeg....a triangular piece in front of the rudder , so debris is defected down...the extra area will help keep it straight during take-off

Ian

i'll be grass landing more than water landings, so extending down is out for me

Well mine arrived today...bit of a fat barsted.....
very carefully retapped the blind nuts with cutting goo on the tap and did all but the rear in the fin......chinese need to get their thread forming right.........get yourself a medium 3mm tapp and go at it very slowly
the pushrod for the main retracts will be reinforced with some carbon tube over , the mains need freeing up with some PTFE spray
The left root ply rib was just slapped on out of alignment...DUH...and the rudder hinges were glued in with a large gap...more DUH...managed to pull them out and will reglue properly
Will install spray strips along the chines and foward of the side sponsons to help keep water out of the cockpit
I think the reason it dips a wing in is that the side sponsons are not deep enough and have enough volume.....will look at this when I get it together with floatation tests
Twill be interesting to see how slow it flys with flaps down.....

Overall I like it (so far) and the shipping from Moruya N.S.W. , OUTSTANDING , got it in 4 days

Ian

Originally Posted by SON OF PALEFACE

......

I think the reason it dips a wing in is that the side sponsons are not deep enough and have enough volume.....will look at this when I get it together with floatation tests
......
Ian

Zero doubt that they are not big enough due to scale effects, as I posted some analysis about that earlier in the thread. Needs more foam outboard and some a little deeper on the outboard parts of the sponson, so that the added foam has the best moment arm to support the model when it tilts.

Some low wing and mid wing models do a little better with smallish sponsons, as the wing does not have to dip very far to get a little floatation at the tip. A high wing sponson equipped model like the Icon ends up tipped over much more when the sponsons are not large enough, making it harder to get the wings level.

I ordered mine around 1 January and it just left China yesterday. Wish it only took 4 days for me. Can't wait to start on it. I'm still going to glass it.

make it a real interesting project... f'glass it, get rid of the foam, throw in some formers, then you have an all fibreglass Icon totally non-foam!

personally i wouldnt do it, but it would be kinda interesting to see how a totally fibreglass Icon would fly compared to the straight-outa-the-box foamie...

Was watching a movie tonight and enjoyed seeing a cameo appearance by the real Icon A5 in the movie "Knight and Day".......... not enough of it, though....