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Old Dec 08, 2004, 03:51 AM
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Mixerboard, Gyro - for your info - PHA-01 or PHA-300

“Hovering” does not mean you set the mixerboard right.
Not only Mini Dragonfly does hovering but also flying like a pro.—Please see the link
http://users.telenet.be/homeflyerfor.../Dragonfly.mpg

First, only for Mixer, Main Rotor and Tail Rotor


In order to over come the torque of main rotor, the output of tail rotor is a function of a factor of Y, which is the output of the main rotor. Ideally linear function is what we are looking for. Rule of KISS. The discussion here only covers Mixer, Main Rotor and Tail Rotor.

Something about linear function. ( please refer to the chart.)

X: the output or rpm of tail motor
Y: the output or rpm of the main rotor.
Blue dot is the point the chopper is hovering.

We assume that the f(X,Y) is a linear function. However, technically electronic components have their own characters due to temperatures, pressure, voltage and humidity etc, it is very difficult to have a linear relationship on a circuit board. Depends on how much $$ you would put in, you will more likely to have the chance to have a circuit function as “only” close to linear. Each manufacturer has its own design based on the target market segment and the cost of the product.

The mixer controls the slop of the line. By adjusting the mixer, we are looking for the best balance output between main rotor and tail rotor.

About Line B:
Line B : Ideally the best line č X= (M)Y M is the slope, which is a constant.
(We assume that Line B is the best equation for main rotor and tail rotor in this example. This line passes the origin. --- It means when X=0, Y also equal to zero. )

Chopper B will do the hovering and also when the main rotor stops, the tail rotor will stop.

About Line D:
Line D :The linear equation looks similar to X= (M’)Y M’ is the slope, which is also a constant. ---- However, it is a wrong constant. --- wrong slope.
(This line also passes the origin. --- It means when X=0, Y also equal to zero. )

Chopper D will not be able to do the hovering and but when the main rotor stops, the tail rotor will stop.

About Line A:
Line A : X= (M’’)Y + I M’’ is the slope, which is a constant. I is also a constant.

(This line does not pass the origin. --- It means when X=0, Y is not equal to zero.)
Chopper A will do the hovering and also when the tail rotor stops, the main rotor will still keep running.

About Line C:
Line C : X= (M’’’)Y + I’ M’’’ is the slope, which is a constant. I’ is also a constant.

(This line does not pass the origin. --- It means when Y=0, X is not equal to zero.)
Chopper A will do the hovering and also when the main rotor stops, the tail rotor will still keep running.

As you can see, Line A, Line B and Line C all cross blue dot. It means that even with different slope, all of them can do hovering without any problem.

On the other hand, Line D does not pass the blue dot. It also indicates that this Heli will have problem to balance when hovering.

Moving the trim of the rudder or moving the stick of the rudder are actually changing the constant I in the equation. --- Means you shift the line to the left or to the right.

Adjusting the mixer pot, you are changing the slope. In other words, rotating the line.


From Q to B : adjust the trim.

From D to B : adjust the mixer pot.

From C or A to B: Need to adjust both.

Now let’s bring the Gyro into our discussion with Mixer, Main Rotor and Tail Rotor.

Gyro, with the ability to keep the helicopter balance, will tend to keep the helicopter in the position of the way it is. I think to balance is not a good term to use. To stabilize the helicopter would be a better term to describe it’s function.

If you are flying Helicopter B (with correct mixer gain), you are sure will not have problem.

In order to adjust mixer correctly, it is better to turn down the gyro gain because the gyro will try to keep the helicopter balanced or stay the way it is. Helicopter A or C with wrong mixer gain, without any problem to hover, with gyro kicking in to stabilize the helicopter may still keeping flying without serious problem.

The input factors to the equation for the output of the tail rotor are, throttle, and rudder, Gyro. Turn down the gyro, you will have a better chance to get a correct mixing gain because you cut down the factor from the gyro.

Ray

--Thanks for many flyers feedback on this thread ---12/14/2004
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Old Dec 08, 2004, 04:13 AM
It will fly!!......oops!
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Last edited by pguss; Oct 07, 2006 at 07:16 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Dec 08, 2004, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pguss
Yep, but if constant "I" changes during the flight you will go from line B to Q. In order to prevent this, you have to keep correcting "I" with trim during the whole flight.

(Actually, isn't "I" a variable (not a constant ) that depends on temperature?)

/Peter
LOL what Pguss said. 'I' will indeed change with temperature in the case of the PHA-01.

But thanks for the info, it is a useful and well written explanation of how the PHA-01 works and how to fine tune it. Its just a shame it wont stay 'tuned' for long.
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Old Dec 08, 2004, 08:37 AM
Houng-wen Lin
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Ray and me on the way to USA.

GWS RD and artwork section had shot some videos. Hope will post the link as soon as Debby get them on GWS web.

I will be GWS USA for a few days.

Who want to give a ton of fertilizer for my 3 acres yard?
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Old Dec 08, 2004, 08:42 AM
Houng-wen Lin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard
LOL what Pguss said. 'I' will indeed change with temperature in the case of the PHA-01.

But thanks for the info, it is a useful and well written explanation of how the PHA-01 works and how to fine tune it. Its just a shame it wont stay 'tuned' for long.
Thanks. Will instruct GWS RD also doing temp test by hot air blower and measure by infrared temp meter.

Let's see what's cooked?
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Old Dec 08, 2004, 08:44 AM
Houng-wen Lin
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Welcome to post what's problems you had?

So, we can keep the next one better. Make it more easier to be set up by any one, not just by GWS RD. They are too much skilled, always told me: No problems.
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Old Dec 09, 2004, 07:47 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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I hope every one who had "problems" with PHA-01. Pls spend a little time to read through this thread, should be help.
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Old Dec 09, 2004, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWS4CEO
Ray and me on the way to USA.




Who want to give a ton of fertilizer for my 3 acres yard?
"Deleted as inappropriate by moderator."

Your stupid and long gone customer
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Old Dec 09, 2004, 08:46 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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I am keep monitor this matter proceed.

Deleted quote of previous post. ModeratorWhat's up? Why you said likewise?

I am keep monitor this matter proceed.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 04:58 PM
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This is good information on how a gyro works


but you are NOT taking into acount TEMPERATURE!!!!!

this chip DRIFTS as temperature increases....and its apparently not linear, or the gyro would self correct....
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 05:33 PM
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Mr Lin, That was a joke by Wildbill. Not to be taken too seriously ( but there is a message there). What he was getting at was that you could spread some of the Initials deleted by Moderator that appears from time to time here -- depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on which is which

Just light a fire under the tail of your R&D to get the PHA-01 fixed and get the replacement out. There is too much 'bad press' which reflects on all GWS products
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 06:01 PM
It will fly!!......oops!
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 06:04 PM
It will fly!!......oops!
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 06:27 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frodus
This is good information on how a gyro works


but you are NOT taking into acount TEMPERATURE!!!!!

this chip DRIFTS as temperature increases....and its apparently not linear, or the gyro would self correct....
GWS are working on a tiny size heat-sink.

All the GWS Dragonfly with PHA-01 or indevidual PHA-01 owners pls contact GWS USA: usa@gws.com.tw fill a customer datas form with the copy of puchased invoice. You will receive this micro heat-sink free of charge.

Out-side USA, pls send to GWS HQ: service@gws.com.tw

Incase you like PHA-01 size better than the new device. I am sure how many grams will be increased? Since we need to add on a larger BEC, yet the PG03 linear circuit will be bigger than micon!

Sorry to caused your inconvenience.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 06:40 PM
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Can you send me the PG03, a 10amp speed control and a 2 amp speed control (all made by GWS)? I'd much rather have that as an option. I'll send my pha-01 back.
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