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Old Mar 22, 2014, 05:18 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Birmingham
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHSoars View Post
stevenjohnsen:

I wonder if Pheonix5 can replicate the aerodynamics of the NASA Droops (also called NACA Droops) used on the e-Flite T-34 Mentor 25 ePTS, the Apprentice e-Flite 15e and other trainers.

- Jim

PS: The Droops are also called "Modified Outboard Leading Edge" or MOLE by a NASA engineer, Spinner, here on RC Groups, who worked on the project at the NASA Langley Research Center. See this post in the What the Heck it Nasa Droop thread.
I assume that the simulator physics engine has an empirical relation for a given profile that will give lift and drag coefficent in 3d axis based on wing cord lenght, swept angle, dihedral angle, angle of attack and relative wing air speed. How this relation is obtained by phoenix developers can be either with measurements or simulation. So long story short if there is a need they can do it. The question is how well can they do it, or how well reality is represented? You can ask them to do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath as they've got enough holes to patch...
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 05:19 PM
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Joined Jun 2012
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That thread made for some interesting reading Jim, thanks.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 05:21 PM
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Regina, SK
Joined Nov 2006
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I just tried the ncpx model and all I can say it flies little like the real thing. Have the models always been this bad or is it just version 5 where everyone is claiming the physics are messed up? My ncpx doesn't pirot on a dime like the sim represents for example... And the throttle response is really jumpy for some reason.

The more I use this, the more I am disappointed with it.

Rob
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 05:22 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Birmingham
Joined Mar 2011
1,427 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbowdonkey View Post
Keep in mind that the USB adapter is sending a value from -127 to 127 to the simulator. That's a lot less resolution than the transmitters most of us are using (which are typically able to send between -1024 to 1024 discrete steps, at least).

My gut says that using Phoenix's mixing/rates/expo might give you more realistic curves, but I need to think it through a bit.

FYI: I've built a lot of USB input devices and as many drivers. Out of curiosity I recently used a bunch of my debug tools to get an idea of what made the adapter tick. I'd be happy to share some of the raw details if anyone is interested.
Fair enough however for a simulator the resolution is absolutely fine. Also testing mixing of real setup on simulator reduces setup time and mixing mistakes in the field. The latter is far more important for me(actually saved me two planes)
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 12:17 AM
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South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G View Post
I just tried the ncpx model and all I can say it flies little like the real thing. Have the models always been this bad or is it just version 5 where everyone is claiming the physics are messed up? My ncpx doesn't pirot on a dime like the sim represents for example... And the throttle response is really jumpy for some reason.

The more I use this, the more I am disappointed with it.

Rob
even at the latest update it still complete rubbish
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 02:41 AM
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United Kingdom, Beds
Joined Sep 2013
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PhoenixBuilder confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggles View Post
Phoenix Creator on version 4.0 is the most difficult software I have ever tried to use.
I have got nowhere with it; all I wanted to do was to remove the engine from the Wot4 and put a nose on it like the Foam E version.
It desperately needs documentation with screenshots to get anywhere.
How do you draw on a shape and fill it with colour?
Really expecting Phoenix 5.0 to be better in this respect and grateful for the free upgrade from 4.0.
Tony
I know this doesn't answer your problem Boogles but will hopefully add some weight to it. ......
I have recently purchased PhoenixRC sim and would like to change some of the default aircraft themes so that they look more like my own models. I'm aware that the tool for the job is the Phoenix Builder but I can't understand how to use it even though I have read through the help file / manual several times! There's a lot of talk of user created themes on this forum but I can't seem to find them to download and I wouldn't know where to install them or utilise them even if I could find them. I am very computer literate but I must admit this has got me stumped! Is there anyone out there who can provide an idiots guide to changing the aircraft colour schemes in PhoenixRC?
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 08:02 AM
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Joined Mar 2013
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Found a couple of new issues with version M that weren't there with L.

Found this first one by accident. Phoenix tells you use a Heli model on your transmitter regardless of what you're flying in the sim, which I normally do except that I copied my real 350QX model settings so that I could try some other settings in the sim. The 350QX model is really an Acro (airplane) model on the TX. What I found is that if you have the "Controller" view on (the little picture of the TX sticks), then with the 350QX or any CP heli model selected, the display of the throttle stick in the Controller view is based on the value of the Aux 1 channel and not the throttle channel. This isn't all that crazy because Aux 1 would be pitch with a Heli model on the TX, which is associated with the throttle stick. But this is different - never saw this before with previous versions. The throttle stick used to be based on the throttle channel. I found this only because I have Aux 1 tied to a switch (Flaps) because of the real 350QX setup, and I noticed the throttle stick in the Controller view was suddenly stuck in one spot until I moved that switch.

The other issue is that with the new rotor/prop display smoothing, the rotors seem to disapper in the "Binocular" view. I imagine the rotors are still being drawn, but the darker background of the Binocular view makes it impossible to see them at any speed above idle.

Echoing another recent comment, I agree that the mQX is still very difficult to fly and nothing like the real thing. The mQX never has been right on 5.0, so hopefully they'll get around to fixing it. The release notes for version M make it sound like they're paying more attention to helis now, so maybe they'll get to it soon.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 11:49 AM
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United States, IN, Grabill
Joined May 2004
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I still have Phoenix V4, and am satisfied with it.
After reading through all these posts and having become frustrated with trying to download V5 and it keeps failing, I too am finished with Phoenix as far as V5 is concerned.

I am going to purchase RF7 because I have used it at the lHS and it has aircraft not offered on Phoenix

I am not into changing or saving files etc. I want something I can turn it on and use it without problems.
Phoenix's support is weak and they need to reorganize, fix their problems, then when ready offer a product that not only works, but has great support
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 04:49 AM
Micro/450 Helis
BuyAndFly's Avatar
Joined Mar 2014
26 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G View Post
I just tried the ncpx model and all I can say it flies little like the real thing. Have the models always been this bad or is it just version 5 where everyone is claiming the physics are messed up? My ncpx doesn't pirot on a dime like the sim represents for example... And the throttle response is really jumpy for some reason.

The more I use this, the more I am disappointed with it.

Rob
Version 4 is the same, but to be fair, I've used several sims (Realflight, Reflex, Aerofly, ClearView, FMS) and none of them accurately portray the way small helis fly. ClearView simulates tail blowouts with the MCPX. I use Phoenix mostly; It has improved my flying a lot.
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Old Mar 26, 2014, 10:35 AM
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Joined Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHSoars View Post
Hi:

will someone please explain what 'Safe Mode' is for.

TIA,
- Jim
With SAFE you can fly an aircraft in different modes. From Beginner to Expert. The behaviour of the aircraft is changing dramatically. This includes self-levelling, self landing, stick-relativity etc.

The real Blade 350 QX and the DeltaRay come with SAFE technology.
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Old Mar 26, 2014, 11:00 AM
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Jun 2012
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I take back what I said about the physics not scaling properly.

My small 3d foamie phoenix models are flying much better now I have found the prop wash section!
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Old Mar 26, 2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limmacslim View Post
I take back what I said about the physics not scaling properly.

My small 3d foamie phoenix models are flying much better now I have found the prop wash section!
How did you change it and what difference does it make
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Old Mar 26, 2014, 01:40 PM
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Jun 2012
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It is found at: Model/ fine tuning/ wash.
My 3d foamies had a lack of authority in high alpha, they were wing rocking & difficult to hang on the prop.
Phoenix apparently does not calculate where your control surfaces are in relation to the prop wash, you have to manually enter a percentage (0%-500%) to simulate how much authority your model would have in high alpha. I copied the yak 54 foamie & entered 400%. It does feel a lot more like the real model now.

I managed to get a little micro heli working quite well too . One issue is I made a custom green rotor blur texture but I am having troubles loading it in phoenix builder, when I click on the blur texture box nothing happens, It does not bring up a file select dialogue or let me type anything in the box.
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Old Mar 26, 2014, 03:05 PM
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Joined Mar 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limmacslim View Post
It is found at: Model/ fine tuning/ wash.
My 3d foamies had a lack of authority in high alpha, they were wing rocking & difficult to hang on the prop.
Phoenix apparently does not calculate where your control surfaces are in relation to the prop wash, you have to manually enter a percentage (0%-500%) to simulate how much authority your model would have in high alpha. I copied the yak 54 foamie & entered 400%. It does feel a lot more like the real model now.

I managed to get a little micro heli working quite well too . One issue is I made a custom green rotor blur texture but I am having troubles loading it in phoenix builder, when I click on the blur texture box nothing happens, It does not bring up a file select dialogue or let me type anything in the box.
Unfortunately for me, Phoenix is a training aid so V5 is a dead loss and the lack of releases look s like they have now abandoned it, thinking it is good enough. They are leaving it to you to sort the physics, if you know what you are doing. If you don't understand the complex aerodynamics and how the model should feel, you have no chance of getting a realistic fly. Im sticking with V4 from now on and giving up on V5, and I suspect this will cost them many new buyers, who demand a well sorted product. Particularly as V5 is all you can get now. A trainer that lands itself and is almost indestructible is no good for me to learn on!
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Old Mar 26, 2014, 03:54 PM
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Joined Dec 2013
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The planes i have tried are already on 400 prop wash
Sure if spent long enough setting planes up they would fly ok but stuff needs sorting that cant be edited
Just had quick go at setting up zirco edge and found
lighten it to 0.2 kg
thrust 60%
cg back to 0.18
100% difficulty
has made a lot of difference but still does odd stuff like needs little or no correction upside down full rudder can fly upside down on ground
can get some planes to hover with rudder on ground with out even using any controls just set throttle
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