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Old Jul 22, 2013, 02:32 AM
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Australia, QLD, Ipswich
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Electric Q-500 setup

Hi guys, i've got a Modeltech/Sportsmans Sonic 500 here that I just picked up and planning to try and do a fast setup on just for some speed thrills at the club.

I was thinking of going with a 8s 2200/2500mah setup using two 4s pack in series. I haven't started cutting access hatches for the batteries yet but from looks of it I see no reason why I couldn't fit both packs either all in the tank bay or one in the tank bay and the other slid back over the wing.

As for the motor I'm looking at picking up one of the older series Hyperion Z4020-16 (504KV) and spinning a 9x9 prop in the calcs i'm doing. This setup calcs at 13.7k rpm, at about 25amps and just over 700 watts. With a pitch speed of 121mph.

Just not sure if this will be enough oomph.

The other option is the -14 (574KV) which gets me up near 35 amps just over 900w with a pitch speed of 132mph at about 15.2kprm

Or I could even go to the -12 (660KV), with a 8x8 prop, 34a just over 900w, but at 17.7krpm, and a pitch speed of 135mph.

So what do you guys think do any of those setups stick out to you? Is there any you'd go with, from what i've read since these are a draggy airframe I need to use a 8" or 9" prop the 7" size props struggle to overcome the airframe drag.

I'm considering purchasing two of those motor choices anyway to play with the options, which two do you think would be best, and has anyone got experience with those motors spinning those speeds. I saw they mention a unloaded rpm limit of 15krpm, so i'm thinking the 660KV 8x8 setup may not be suitable.

Any input is much appreciated.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 05:00 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
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http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo.../HK4020-910KV/
That looks like an old scat cat! Great planes lr1 aluminum gear and some speed wheels, one of these motors on 6s 4k and a 7x7 or 7x8 sport prop ought to do you well, cobra 150amp esc should do. thoughts?
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Last edited by ApexAero; Jul 22, 2013 at 05:19 AM. Reason: cells
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 05:58 AM
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My thoughts always were to go with something similar to that Scorpion motor KV and run a 5s or 6s setup. But then figured maybe I could go with a high cell count setup using all the 4s 2200mah pack I have lying around and if i'm honest i'm much more comfortable running high volts with low amps rather than high amps with low volts.

I was doing some reading through an old thread related to the GP Viper Q-500 model and it seems those who tried the 7" props preferred the 8" and even the 9" props. It was thought the drag of the airframe was just too much for the 7" prop to overcome.

Forgot to mention i'll be using a CC Edge 50a ESC, only 8s capable ESC I could find that was not way more amps than I was looking to run, most companies seem to start at about 100a for HV ESC's.

Guess i'm just trying to figure out if running a 8s lower KV motor is not going to achieve the same as a lower cell count and higher KV. The theory as I understand it, is it should make no difference within a few % each way.

I do have some 5s 4500mah packs but they would be a total pain to fit, which is why I'm considering the 8s 2200mah setup as I really don't want to have to buy more batteries.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 06:05 AM
The Sequel
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Will the old z motors be ok with 8?
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 07:06 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
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There are a few schools of thought, I agree, thing is how to achieve a 3.5hp equivalent of a nitro pylon motor and not be way too heavy. I just don't see the 2200's doing much to achieve it. 8s is still going to need some oomph to get a 2.5 min pylon run. It ain't gonna be a sport flyer so go for it man. When you toast it send it to me for a re wind. There is a fellow that did 230mph on an 8s system on a 7 x 10 (in a designated speed design) your 2200's may fit but will they have the available amperage to power your airframe setup for any length of time without toasting them or the esc..
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 01:02 PM
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Hi
Q500 plane has so mutch drag that you must use 9" prop

On methanol engines we use:
9" x6" on standard class (about 16-17000 rpm) speed is about 175km/h

8.75x8.5N, 8.8x8.75, 8.75x9.0W, 8.8x9.25 on super class (about 20-23000rpm) 270km/h
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Last edited by samuelx; Jul 22, 2013 at 01:20 PM.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustflynow2 View Post
Will the old z motors be ok with 8?
I assume so, I was always under the impression that the motor has no idea what voltage it's seeing, the power comes from the watts. Maybe it does matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
There are a few schools of thought, I agree, thing is how to achieve a 3.5hp equivalent of a nitro pylon motor and not be way too heavy. I just don't see the 2200's doing much to achieve it. 8s is still going to need some oomph to get a 2.5 min pylon run. It ain't gonna be a sport flyer so go for it man. When you toast it send it to me for a re wind. There is a fellow that did 230mph on an 8s system on a 7 x 10 (in a designated speed design) your 2200's may fit but will they have the available amperage to power your airframe setup for any length of time without toasting them or the esc..
I'm not looking to race this aircraft so throttle usage will be mixed, WOT for high speed passes and likely backed off for the turns and climb outs at either end of the circuit. But in saying that I am hoping to get some reasonable speed out of it, it's really just to get some different thrills from the usual ones I get with my 3D/aerobatic aircraft.

Guess i'll just give it a try and see how I go. I'm looking at the old Z series Hyperion motors simply because you can pick them up cheap these days and they're more likely to keep all there magnets in place over something from HK. I'm not looking to spend a furtune on this model, the airframe only cost me a bit over a $100, and i'd rather save my money up for 1/4 Scale Mick Reeves Camel kit i've got on my purchase list (my modelling interests are quite varied).



Quote:
Originally Posted by samuelx View Post
Hi
Q500 plane has so mutch drag that you must use 9" prop

On methanol engines we use:
9" x6" on standard class (about 16-17000 rpm) speed is about 175km/h

8.75x8.5N, 8.8x8.75, 8.75x9.0W, 8.8x9.25 on super class (about 20-23000rpm) 270km/h
Yeah, I read in another thread that for racing the 9" or close to it is necessary to maintain speed and acceleration trhough and out of the turns. Hopefully since i'm not racing I can play around with the smaller 8" props. Thanks for the info around speeds being reached, i'm really only hoping to get a bit better than those standard class speeds initially in a straight line/diving pass and then i'll experiment from there.

Thanks for the feedback guys.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 06:46 PM
The Sequel
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You probably know the recommended uses for these motors,

http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datas...z40/z40all.htm

Also voltage limits?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1099747
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 09:10 PM
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Does anyone know the differences between the Z and H series Hyperion motors. They say the H is for Heli's and fast planes etc.. but nothign to really dictate why they would be any better for high RPM use.

Guess I'm just trying to figure out is the Z not able to handle the RPM that a H could. I can't see how the construction would differ other than maybe some different bearings, which is easy enough to rectify.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 09:54 AM
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Well, I ordered the the 574KV motor so i'll see how it goes. At the end of the day it was only $60 on sale so i'm not out a huge amount of money if it's doesn't work.

Plus i'm sure i've got another plane the Hyperion and CC ESC will work fine in, so if it's unsuccesful it's not a total loss, just means i'll find another motor and I might have to invest in some different batteries.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Joined Mar 2007
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My dad did a Scat Cat with a typical EF-1 set up... e-flite 25 motor, 60amp esc and a 4s 2600mah pack.... and some retracts for ships and giggles. Goes good!
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Old Aug 18, 2013, 05:21 AM
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Well it maidened today. No issues with the 8s on Hyperion motor. It's just going to be a case of seeing if the Hyperion holds up longterm. It's quicker than anything else I have but that wouldn't be hard. But it's fast enough for now.

I had three flights today and tried 3 different APC props.
First up was a 9x8.5 good acceleration and top speed was ok. I also checked the Castle log after doing some ground runs. 13.7krpm 37amps and 900 odd watts, soo allow for the prop to unload in flight and calcs weren't that far off.

8.75x9.5NN Top speed was pretty good but acceleration was dismal, I'm guessing I need to spin this prop alot faster to get it really on step.

8.75x9W This was the pick of the day, good acceleration and i'd also say the best top speed by a few mph.

Motor temps were fine, motor was warm but not hot and was cold to touch within 5 mins of landing, the ESC was warm to touch but I expected that, it's one of the Lite series and is actually in the space between the motor and the firewall so although there is alot of airflow past it, it doesn't get direct airflow. Same goes for the batteries Zippy Compact 25c 4s 2200mah wired in series, they are warm but don't seem to hot which i'm happy with considering they have no airflow at all.

So i'll fly it like this for awhile and see how the Hyperion motor holds up. I also didn't have a spinner fitted today, so i'll fit one next time out and see how that improves the speed and effects the motor and ESC temps. Then I might upgrade to the 660kv from the current 574kv, I think that's as far as I could push the ESC and batteries. If I decide I want to go faster I think, i'll have to look at getting a more speed appropriate airframe.
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Old Sep 02, 2013, 01:55 AM
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Well I gave in and ordered the 660KV motor, fitted up and tested on the weekend. 4 perfect flights on the weekend, no issues with temps or loose magnets so far.

In flight log details show I hit a peak watts of just over 1400w and peak amps of just over 47a, and peak RPM was about 17300rpm. But normal peak RPM was about 16.7krpm dropping of to about 16.4krpm towards the end of the flight, this is using mixed throttle settings during flight with full throttle being used for passes and backed of for climb outs and turn arounds.

The calcs show pitch speed in the 140-150mph range, what the actual speed are in flight i'm not sure, but it seems pretty fast for the type of model. Although i'm sure it wouldn't hold a torch to some of the speed planes I see this forum section. It's quick enough for now anyway.
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Old Sep 02, 2013, 04:32 AM
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Calc seems to agree with you, do you have some pics?
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Old Sep 02, 2013, 05:56 AM
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Yeah it does come out pretty close to what ecalc tells me. Slightly lower RPM for the calced amps and watts but pretty close. I haven't taken any but I can grap a xouple quick phone pics tomorrow. It's nothing flash to look at though.
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