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Old Mar 26, 2014, 09:43 AM
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Hi Vince,

I have an Armonia and was catching up on this thread, and saw where you re-posted my FG notes. Also, I posted a bit more thorough review on RCU, where Don S. backed up my observations 100%.

Much has been said about the T-canalizer and the effects are pretty well understood/agreed on. I have flown the following planes with and without T-Can's: Oaxi Aries 07, CA Models Passports and Osmose, Abbra (ventral fin only), custom Aggressor. The same effect trends took place on all planes.

The height of the fin determines the "amount" of increased positive pitching moment with rudder. The fin & plate both keep air better attached to the fuselage and some how act to make left and right rudder feel more the same. Like adding a natural exponential function to the rudder, but adding authority at the same time. The Fin will increase the "yaw-carve/pivot" versus a regular yaw-skid. The Fin will "carve" in/out of integrated rolling elements better. The Fin/plate combination REALLY helps carve the integrated rolling maneuvers. Also, normal rolling maneuvers all seem easier to do and stay on line. No adverse effects on snaps, spins, stall turns.

My opinion - no turning back from this device as a way to help the F3A finals type of maneuvers. On my older Aries 07, 1.0" of rudder travel can perform nice knife edge loop exits.

EDIT: After adding the T-Can (from CAModels) to this Aries 07, it is 100% capable of F15 integrated rolling maneuvers. Also, is capable of slow horizontal rolls and can be flown very "electric-like" in pace and presentation.

I wish I had a gym to fly in since moving to Boca Raton. This F3P stuff is fascinating but is more of a col de sac calm day for me now.
Jim
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Last edited by Jim Woodward; Mar 26, 2014 at 09:52 AM.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 02:09 AM
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Seattle/Tacoma Boeing, Washington, United States
Joined Dec 2002
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Jim, Thanks for input! One question for you. Is your T-Can at zero incidence re wing? Have you tried changing incidence?

This may be more important in our flat plate wing aircraft since the wing always has an angle of attack except of course when we are hovering or going straight up or down or interestingly in Knife edge.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 08:02 AM
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Hi Vince,

On my pattern stuff I have set them to the fuselage zero line, and to the wing. Once you fly it, the larger wing creates the dominate resultant force, so I'm not sure small angles in the T-can really make a difference. If you built an adjustable T-can, then I'm sure you can dial-in fine tuning, but overall I haven't messed around with it to that degree.

On a foamy I would just put it parallel to the main wing. I'm not really a F3P expert and there are PLENTY of people here that really are so they can provide better input. Many of the designs seem to put is parallel to the main wing/stab.
Thanks,
Jim
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 11:53 PM
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Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Oct 2012
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First flight

Finally got a calm warm evening to do a first flight on my new Armonia. Excellent flier. As someone else mentioned, roll it to knife edge and you don't need rudder to hold a straight path in knife edge. Of course, if you turn in knife edge, you need throttle and a touch of rudder.

With the C of G at 220 mm, there is no coupling in knife edge at all. It needs a touch of down to hold inverted, so the battery can go back a hair.

Another nice feature is the lineal roll unlike so many of my foamies that wallow through a roll and require constant pilot attention.

I added the air brakes that came with the kit so down lines are slow and controlled.

With 3 x JR 188HV servos I can only get about 3 minutes of flight time on Eflite 200 mah batteries. I don't want to go to bigger heavier batteries but 3 minutes is a bit short. The servos are fast and precise on 7.4v.

I stretched out a roll end of linoleum 37 inches wide and 23 feet long on my grass runway to serve as a smooth runway for the Armonia. I flipped the linoleum over - it's smoother on the underside. The Armonia uses about 6 feet to take off and I can harrier into a landing only 3 feet in length. so the I could have saved some money and just bought 10 feet of linoleum.

We now have the use of a small school gymnasium for next winter so there will be lots of flying in a very tight air space - the Armonia will be perfect.
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Old Apr 13, 2014, 09:37 AM
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Don't want to start a great debate on battery......but eFlite for the most part are high price junk battery.......I get 5-7 depending on how much I hover with cheap nano-tech....300
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Old Apr 13, 2014, 09:03 PM
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Thanks Dansy
The Eflite is only 14 grams - all the Nano-techs around 200 mah I can find are 27 grams or more. So I'm still looking for a better lightweight 200 mah battery.
Anyone know of such a beast?
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 01:29 AM
F3A Team Finland
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Järvenpää, Finland
Joined Nov 2005
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RCNorthBC, your Hacker motor has way too high KV for the GWS prop you are using. That is the reason for bad efficiency and short flight time. Try a prop that doesn't load the motor that much.

The 180 mAh Nanothech weighs about 12.5 grams. It is an ok battery but I suspect that the Eflight battery is OK as well.
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 01:42 AM
"Free" in Christ! #F3P
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I was flying a 180 Nanotech on my competition airplane...they work great!

Free
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Old Apr 15, 2014, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post
I was flying a 180 Nanotech on my competition airplane...they work great!

Free
I see that the battery weight I was looking at on HobbyKing was the shipping weight and not the weight of the battery itself which is a lot less.

I've ordered some NanoTechs for the Armonia - thanks guys!
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Old Apr 15, 2014, 03:55 PM
F3A Team Finland
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Järvenpää, Finland
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And when you find out that your flight time is still the same, try another prop too.

The GWS 7 x 3.5 is a good point to start. The flight time should improve to roughly 4½ min.
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Old Apr 15, 2014, 08:07 PM
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I fly mine with pt 8x4.3 carbon
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 02:53 AM
F3A Team Finland
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Järvenpää, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dansy View Post
I fly mine with pt 8x4.3 carbon
With the same Hacker motor - I think you mentioned it?

In any case, the PT props don't have nearly as wide blades as the GWS 8 x 4.3 which means they don't load the motor as much. I would still try the PT 9 x 2.5 or even smaller pitch variant for Armonia. The 4" and 4.3" pitch props are more optimal for fast 3D planes.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 06:01 PM
rgj
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Talking about batteies here, I have used Nanotech180 and Hyperion 180 and I think I do as many do ..fly until the Power is gone so this results in high grade abuse/rape off the batteries.
This year I only have the chance to fly indoor I think it wa 3 times so didnt bother to buy New batteries I have 2 Hyperions and a handful off Nanotech and all off the Nanotech was just Garbage not strange after how I have used and treat them the was also left in the box empty and full charge mo system at all ...hrmmmf..but the Hyperions after maybe 2 flights was completely back and on my 2 years old just under 100 gr model gave about 3-4 min off schedule flight..so will I buy nanotech again.....well if I can axept to trow them away after maybe 20 flights or so ..yes ...but NeXT year I will try to build a mylar covered model and then is weigt an issue so we have to see what I find..but still I think my Hyperions will perform
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Old May 08, 2014, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnspeed View Post
With the same Hacker motor - I think you mentioned it?

In any case, the PT props don't have nearly as wide blades as the GWS 8 x 4.3 which means they don't load the motor as much. I would still try the PT 9 x 2.5 or even smaller pitch variant for Armonia. The 4" and 4.3" pitch props are more optimal for fast 3D planes.
It works great great with my prop super slow....
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