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Old Aug 22, 2013, 06:45 AM
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United States, IL, De Land
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New Product
Flying Models Baby Biwinger micro

Hey guys, just in time for the up coming indoor season, Flying Models Magazine is pleased to offer our first laser cut kit, the Baby Biwinger. The original Baby Biwinger was designed by Lud Kading and was featured in Air Trails in 1952. The little 13" bipe was designed for the Cox .010 and .020 engines as a freeflight model. Now with modern electronics, it can be flown as a three channel R/C model.

Mark from Retro R/C is cutting these exclusive kits for Flying Models, so you know the quality of the kits will be great. The model comes with the option to use the AR6400 Horizon brick or the Flyzone brick and motor from the latest Flyzone micro's. I built one of the prototypes and have been having a blast with it. I'm using the brick and motor from a Flyzone S.E.5a and a Tactic TTX650. It is an easy build and a fun flying micro that is different from all the others if you like vintage designs.

I've attached a few pictures of mine. I covered mine with Coverite Microlite, but many just cover the frame with a coat of dope and apply the included decals for that old school look. Check out http://carstensbookstore.com/babikit.html for more info.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 06:52 AM
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That looks very nice but for US customers only I see. Increase in postage is affecting a lot of businesses these days.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 01:35 PM
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Mark had one at our Wounded Warriors indoor fly last Saturday. Looked like it flew great!
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:16 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA
Joined Aug 2004
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Looks nice. I received mine a couple of weeks ago, but have not had the opportunity to start on it yet. I'm planning to use the Parkzone P-51 motor and an AR6400 clone. Sure would like to see it fly - any chance you could post a video?
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 03:47 AM
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Gorgeous, but with that wing loading it's going to be quite fast, I suspect, and not close to scale. (I'd be happy to be proved wrong, btw.).
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 08:33 AM
Gary
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Originally Posted by speakertoanimals View Post
Gorgeous, but with that wing loading it's going to be quite fast, I suspect, and not close to scale. (I'd be happy to be proved wrong, btw.).
While not necessarily a floater, I wouldn't expect a 3-4 ounce loading to be a problem. I just test flew a 12 inch span model loaded over 5 ounces without a problem and while not a floater it was not a racer either. Probably similar to a UMX T-28 for comparison but not a fast on the top end. And my 11 inch Sperry Messenger has a loading of just over 3 oz. and flys at nearly a walking pace.

I haven't seen this fly but it will probably fly great. The added drag of a biplane also helps keep things slow.
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gklein View Post
While not necessarily a floater, I wouldn't expect a 3-4 ounce loading to be a problem. I just test flew a 12 inch span model loaded over 5 ounces without a problem and while not a floater it was not a racer either. Probably similar to a UMX T-28 for comparison but not a fast on the top end. And my 11 inch Sperry Messenger has a loading of just over 3 oz. and flys at nearly a walking pace.

I haven't seen this fly but it will probably fly great. The added drag of a biplane also helps keep things slow.
Your comparison to the T-28's speed sounds about right, but remember, the wingspan on this is a lot smaller than the T-28. This model made of 2 mm depron would probably fly at a reasonable scale-like speed. But it is gorgeous, and I'd love to see a video of it!

added drag won't make it slower, I think it will just require more power for a given speed. to a decent approximation stall speed is just proportional to the square root of the wing loading. For this plane that should be about 7.5 mph, which sounds REALLY slow, but it's equivalent to an 8 minute mile pace while running, which is pretty decent for most of us! (For comparison, a world class (male) marothoner runs at slightly better than a 5 minute mile pace.)
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by speakertoanimals View Post
Gorgeous, but with that wing loading it's going to be quite fast, I suspect, and not close to scale. (I'd be happy to be proved wrong, btw.).
Actually, it is not. Mine is out fitted with the guts from a Flyzone S.E.5a and I usually fly mine at half throttle. She is like a Dakota Bipe, real draggy so at full speed she doesn't seam fast. As far as scale, well, she's 1:1 scale as the original Baby Biwinger was the same size in 1952, just had a Cox .020 in the nose.

I'll see about getting a video up soon, we are going to print on the September issue tomorrow so I'm slammed with magazine work.

Jim
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 12:57 PM
Gary
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Originally Posted by speakertoanimals View Post
Your comparison to the T-28's speed sounds about right, but remember, the wingspan on this is a lot smaller than the T-28. This model made of 2 mm depron would probably fly at a reasonable scale-like speed. But it is gorgeous, and I'd love to see a video of it!

added drag won't make it slower, I think it will just require more power for a given speed. to a decent approximation stall speed is just proportional to the square root of the wing loading. For this plane that should be about 7.5 mph, which sounds REALLY slow, but it's equivalent to an 8 minute mile pace while running, which is pretty decent for most of us! (For comparison, a world class (male) marothoner runs at slightly better than a 5 minute mile pace.)
True the stall speed should not change just for increased drag but there are other benefits. Slower acceleration in departure from flight, slower descents, better turning with minimal "overturning" with the dihedral impact on longer wings, etc.. I find as a practical matter my Bipes are gentler, easier fliers as a rule (excluding my Pitts!) As for slow flight, I believe that the stall being proportional to the square root of the wing area is only part of the story. It tells us the change in relation to the wing area, but makes no statement as to the airfoil shape and resultant lift characteristics. Case in point - view the video of the 11 inch Sperry's flight at a wing loading of 3 ounces per in post number 22 of this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1627695

I may be wrong on this but it matches my experience. Please excuse me for hijacking this thread on a nice plane.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 08:27 AM
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Hey guys. No video yet but I do have some pictures that were taken after a recent club meeting. The winds were only a few miles per hour as it was the end of the day. Flew it non stop for around 10 minutes or so.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 07:55 AM
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Looks good!!!
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Illinois
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I had built one of these as a kid from the original plans in Air Trails. It was powered by a Cox .020 that I bought at Tiny Tots in Plainfield (I think) NJ for $2.00! I painted it with Aero Gloss red with a simple sprayer I made (siphon type, brass tubes at right angles connected to the air compressor).

I did all my testing so it glided straight and true (stop laughing!). When Dad got home from work that night, we ate dinner and I got the plane fueled up and started (I had done that earlier in the day too, to get the needle right). After I got it running, I topped up the tank. (Stop laughing I said!) Then I launched it.

WOW!! It climbed up, up, up in a nice turn due to the torque. It was perfect. As it got above the top of the mountain it looked like it ran into the turbulence off the prevailing wind (we lived on a mountainside, and the wind was different above the mountain top. I often watched the large birds slope soaring there). That turbulence had my little plane rolling and looping. For an eternity it did that, until it ran out of fuel. It then headed off, perfectly straight and above the mountain, toward Pennsylvania.

I took off into the woods, over the mountain, looking up in the impenetrable canopy of leaves, hoping to catch a glimpse of my little red darling. I hiked all the way over the mountain, to the road on the other side and back (I only did that three times in my life). I got back just in time for it to be night.

Boy, was I disappointed.

I never saw it again. Hung must have needed it for his collection.

I have one of these kits now, and hopefully soon will take a few hours to build it. It'll get a Vapor brick so I can keep it close to me. Hung will have to steal somebody else's toy!

Andy
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 02:19 PM
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Illinois
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Jim,

Got any photos of a PKZ motor installation? The one in the instruction sheet is pretty lame.

Andy
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 03:53 PM
I love my ID.
Fairfax VA
Joined Aug 2004
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John Worth told me that he turned to RC flying after losing his perfect free flight glider. Said 'chasing a model airplane was no fun'.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 06:28 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
Jim,

Got any photos of a PKZ motor installation? The one in the instruction sheet is pretty lame.

Andy
I figured it out. I was using the radio tabs, not the motor tabs. Shoo Goo to the rescue!

Time to watch some TV. All this building has me pooped out

Andy
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