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Old Oct 07, 2012, 04:45 PM
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Guardian 2D/3D and loops

Can the Guardian help with loops? Will it even work during a loop?
I have my Guardian 2D/3D installed with all settings as factory default. (I.E. In 2D, Heading hold Submode or Automatic Turn Coordination are NOT set. In 3D mode, 3D heading hold submode or Direct Rate 3D Control Submode are NOT set.) It reacts correctly with deviations in attitude to correct the flight when the plane is rightside up.

Am I correct in my thinking as to what will happen if I do a loop with stabilization ON? I want to understand the operation before I go to the field and try a loop.

It seems that In 2D mode, if I do a loop, when it goes inverted it will try to rotate back to rightside up - rotating either right or left from a start point slightly left or right while inverted. That makes sense in 2D since the aileron stick stays in the middle (not moved) and that is when the Guardian does it's thing. Bench test seem to prove this behavior.
But I thought I could do loops in 3D mode but the behavior seems to be the same as in 2D mode. - it tries to go upright at the top of the loop since the aileron stick will normally not be moved during the loop.

So, here is my question. Is there a mode in the Guardian that will allow me to do full loops and hold the wings level without some radical attempt to right the plane at the top (inverted) part of the loop - or will I just need to leave it off for that maneuver? (I was hoping the Guardian would improve my loops in a cross wind)

Also, how should I expect the plane to act if I do rolls in the various modes.

Looking again at the manual, Perhaps Direct Rate 3D Control Submode is what I am looking for but I can't seem to get my head around how that will work. If a bit of wind gust lifts one of the wings while inverted, will it try to go to upright?

Any help on this would be appreciated.
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Last edited by dspanogle; Oct 07, 2012 at 04:54 PM.
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Old Jul 19, 2013, 02:42 PM
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This original post is old but since it was never answered and I have the same problem I bring it up again. I did a loop with 3D heading hold enabled and was very close to a crash when the guardian "helped" me keep the plane inverted at the exit of the loop.
Just as dspanogle said any help on this would be appreciated.
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Old Jul 19, 2013, 05:21 PM
A man with too many toys
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Joined Feb 2001
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That’s strange I fly 3D heading hold mode all the time and fly all kinds of 3D and sport aerobatics. It does loops for me without crashing.

Are you sure that the rudder and other controls are working in the correct direction? In 3D HH if you don’t tough the transmitter and yaw the aircraft nose left the rudder should go right to try to stop the yaw.


There is a deadband at center stick so if you have the stick close to center when inverted it will hold that attitude until you give it enough up elevator to get out of the heading hold deadband. For my 3D airplane with lots of control throws and lots of expo I sure with that I could adjust the deadband. Hopefully that will be a feature in the next firmware update.


Better yet would be a way to turn the 3D heading hold option on and off in flight. It’s great for takeoff and some maneuvers but not so good for loops and other maneuvers. It’s not as smooth as I would like when I go in and out of the heading hold deadband. Eagle Tree definitely needs to make some improvements for us with high performance 3D airplanes.


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Old Jul 20, 2013, 12:45 AM
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Joined Jan 2012
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Guardian Question : I have the unit installed and every thing checks out. Have my gains about half to start, and going to check it out tomorrow. My question is this, when I have the switch in the off position, everything works and SOUNDS normal. When I switch to 2D or 3D, again every things works as it should, however, the sound of the servo's sounds like a deep growl, that's the only way to describe it. Louder than normal. Is this still OK, or is something going to burn up ??
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 04:59 AM
A man with too many toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rocket View Post
Guardian Question : I have the unit installed and every thing checks out. Have my gains about half to start, and going to check it out tomorrow. My question is this, when I have the switch in the off position, everything works and SOUNDS normal. When I switch to 2D or 3D, again every things works as it should, however, the sound of the servo's sounds like a deep growl, that's the only way to describe it. Louder than normal. Is this still OK, or is something going to burn up ??

On the Advanced tab check the Servo Speed. If you have analog servos make sure that it is 50 Hz. For digital servos set the speed according to manufacture recommendation. For Hitec digital servos they say to use 270 Hz. I have one airplane with analog and one with digital servos and have had no problems.

When you are in the 2D or 3D mode the servos are controlled by the Guardian and are going to move more than in manual control. Also donít over volt servos. With manual control you can get away with it but the Guardian works servos too hard to get away with that.


What airplane and servos do you have?


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Old Jul 20, 2013, 08:39 AM
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Thanks RC Man
Oh great, my computer is down and don't have the cable and the instructions don't say a word about servo freq. I was kinda of thinking that. Plus the Freq. parameters I guess can't be set using the rudder stick. I have the Polaris and the servo's I got from Model Aero with the kit, they don't even give a name on them, although they are metal gear. The guardian instructions just say that with analog servo's, may not be able to turn the gain as high. Looks like I just have to take a chance or I'm just out of luck using the guardian. Rats ! Maybe I'll turn down the gain to 1/4 and see what happen. Thanks for the reply.

Roger
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 09:23 AM
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Oops, I guess the guardian manual does talk about Freq. It's the only parameter that needs a laptop to change. The instructions say the default is 50 Hrz an that should be OK for analog OR digital servo's although a higher freq with digitals may work better. So, going to throw caution to the wind, and use it as is ! Funny, I don't need a laptop to change servo freq on Heli gyro's for servo freq. Oh well.
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 11:18 AM
A man with too many toys
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Originally Posted by Roger Rocket View Post
Oops, I guess the guardian manual does talk about Freq. It's the only parameter that needs a laptop to change. The instructions say the default is 50 Hrz an that should be OK for analog OR digital servo's although a higher freq with digitals may work better. So, going to throw caution to the wind, and use it as is ! Funny, I don't need a laptop to change servo freq on Heli gyro's for servo freq. Oh well.
Yes the default is 50 so you should be ok. If you get it used it might have been changed. You really need a PC so that you can update firmware and more easily change parameters. I had to change the servo end points in the Guardian firmware to get full throw so there are several parameters that you need a PC to adjust.


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Old Jul 20, 2013, 01:53 PM
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Most likely it's from the unsmooth transition from/to the the Heading Hold dead band. I've noted some issiues with this in earlier flights. With high (but otherwise problem free) gain and going from a fast roll to instant stop the HH has more than once overcompensated with a full roll in the opposite direction instead of just stop the original roll.

I agree enabling the 3D heading hold option on and off in flight would be usefull.

Currently the mode switch can not be configured in any way. A suggestion could be to add the possibility to customize what mode (sub mode) is set at different ranges of the mode input.
Then the standard 2D-OFF-3D could be customized to OFF-3D-3DwithHH or if you have acces to more than a 3way switch 2D-OFF-3D-3DwithHH.
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 03:57 PM
A man with too many toys
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Originally Posted by SebbeMalm View Post
Most likely it's from the unsmooth transition from/to the the Heading Hold dead band. I've noted some issiues with this in earlier flights. With high (but otherwise problem free) gain and going from a fast roll to instant stop the HH has more than once overcompensated with a full roll in the opposite direction instead of just stop the original roll.

I agree enabling the 3D heading hold option on and off in flight would be usefull.

Currently the mode switch can not be configured in any way. A suggestion could be to add the possibility to customize what mode (sub mode) is set at different ranges of the mode input.
Then the standard 2D-OFF-3D could be customized to OFF-3D-3DwithHH or if you have acces to more than a 3way switch 2D-OFF-3D-3DwithHH.

Thatís an excellent idea Ė allow the user to chose the function of the switch positions just like my Flybarless controllers do.

I sure hope that someone from Eagle Tree sees this. Is there some official way to make suggestions about future firmware upgrades?


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Old Jul 20, 2013, 04:54 PM
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Hi RC Man
Tried the guardian today for the first time. Works great ! It may be nice to do additional adjustments with a laptop, but out of the box, factory default settings, works real good. Would recommend it to anyone. Good forum here, lots of help. Thanks once more RC Man.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 07:23 AM
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Joined Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
Thatís an excellent idea Ė allow the user to chose the function of the switch positions just like my Flybarless controllers do.

I sure hope that someone from Eagle Tree sees this. Is there some official way to make suggestions about future firmware upgrades?


.
Hey Guys,

I can add this suggestion to our feature request list but how much demand do you thing there is for this feature? If you run across any others interested, have them post a quick note in this forum so we can keep up with how much demand there is.

Thanks! John
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Old Sep 13, 2013, 05:23 PM
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Help. I have a new eagle tree guardian and need help setting up my DX8 transmitter and AR8000 receiver in a Funtana 125 with a DLE 20cc gas engine. I have an optical cut-off for the gas engine that I would like to keep active on the gear switch. Would like to have the programming for setting the guardian on the flap/gyro 3 position switch. Any one out there with this programming experience?
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