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Old Sep 10, 2013, 01:38 PM
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And then there is this one the Erickson MCC, not a Wankel but the denomination used is Moving Combustion Chamber engine..... which of course it does. A rotary ? How about a sleeve valve engine like this Dylla or RCV ? A rotary ?
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Old Sep 10, 2013, 01:50 PM
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It doesn't have to be that complicated Reginald.

Here a helicopter with an internal combustion two stroke single piston rotary engine

Vintage R/C Helicopter - Du-Bro Whirlybird 505 (5 min 28 sec)


TF
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Old Sep 10, 2013, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zor View Post
The square root ! ! ! . . . When I was in 7th grade of primary school we learned how to extract the cubic root of a number using paper and pencil.

Not that it was to be very useful in the future but it was a brain developing exercice.

Zor
E-X-E-R-C-I-C-E ??? Should have spent a little more time in spelling class! I'm 'kidding', don't you know!
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 12:01 AM
Zor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARUP View Post

E-X-E-R-C-I-C-E ??? Should have spent a little more time in spelling class! I'm 'kidding', don't you know!
Yes ARUP _ _ _

The C on my keyboard is too close to the S.
I knew how to spell exercise and did not notice hitting the wrong key.

Thanks for bringing this up. I would not encourage you to do a posting for all spelling errors you notice. You would spend all your valuable time doing such postings.

Posting for my spelling error is fine because I appreciate it.
I will make the correction on my original post.

Again a big thank you.

Zor

P.S.: I made the correction in post #19 and gave you credit to bring it up.
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Last edited by Zor; Sep 11, 2013 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Added the P.S.:
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 12:28 AM
Zor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurus Flyer View Post

It doesn't have to be that complicated Reginald.

Here a helicopter with an internal combustion two stroke single piston rotary engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb2Cj3epamA

TF
Taurus Flyer,

Congratulations for the innovation.
I am trying to think how you managed the throttle control on this engine.

It appears obvious that you still do the heli control using the main blades pitch control and the tail rotor (prop ?) to control heading.

Zor
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 06:11 AM
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Had a heli like that back around 70 or 71 called the Cricket or Grasshopper. Had the blade weights like that but hung down on about a 45 degree angle. Didn't even have a body, just the frame. Super Tigre 35 if I remember right. No rudder gyros back then. The blades were floating on a pivot. Centrifugal force caused them to go to higher pitch with higher RPM. Very innovative for the day.These were the first RC helis.

Gord.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 06:19 AM
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yeah Dubro made that contra rotating engine prop and main blade "Du-Bro Whirlybird 505" as the first commercial RC helicopter way back in the 1970's. Dave Gray was the designer and first flyer for that design.

No gyros back then.
It was fixed pitch. The main blade is hollow and the throttle pushrod went through it.
The cyclic was rather primitive but worked the same as today.
The tail rotor was run off a gear on the main shaft.
At the time all one could do was hover around some and do some slow flying around with them.

Cox actually made several free flight models using that same principle with .049 and .020 engines too. They sold them for quite a few years too.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by earlwb View Post
yeah Dubro made that contra rotating engine prop and main blade "Du-Bro Whirlybird 505" as the first commercial RC helicopter way back in the 1970's. Dave Gray was the designer and first flyer for that design.

No gyros back then.
It was fixed pitch. The main blade is hollow and the throttle pushrod went through it.
The cyclic was rather primitive but worked the same as today.
The tail rotor was run off a gear on the main shaft.
At the time all one could do was hover around some and do some slow flying around with them.

Cox actually made several free flight models using that same principle with .049 and .020 engines too. They sold them for quite a few years too.
Yep the Whirlybird 505 these were imported here by Tenco (Theeuwen/Cohen)
picture is from the 74/75 catalogue. I did buy the kit later when the thing was considered already obsolete, very flat box it was, tail boom was a polyester rod, counter balance for the engine was the fueltank, looked a bit like a twin thus. The recommended engine was either a 40 HP or K&B. I sold it years ago to a heli collector and an un-built one in box is very rare indeed. Amazing how the chap in the video managed that thing. First time I see one flying !
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
Yep the Whirlybird 505 these were imported here by Tenco (Theeuwen/Cohen)
picture is from the 74/75 catalogue. I did buy the kit later when the thing was considered already obsolete, very flat box it was, tail boom was a polyester rod, counter balance for the engine was the fueltank, looked a bit like a twin thus. The recommended engine was either a 40 HP or K&B. I sold it years ago to a heli collector and an un-built one in box is very rare indeed. Amazing how the chap in the video managed that thing. First time I see one flying !
........ thanks Taurus Flyer.

You are welcome Reginald.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 10:59 AM
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I worked at a marina when I had mine and I test flew it in the workshop with four tethers tied to the heli and a brick on each tether with enough slack to lift a couple of ft. Practiced with that for a while, rudder was hard to manage. Finally did take it outside and shortly trashed it.
Sorry I got a little off topic.


Gord.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 01:54 PM
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In 1974 I was trying to learn how to fly a heli using a Kalt Baron I had bought in Japan. It was a lot of takeoff and crash right away stuff. So it was fix it, take off, crash, fix it, take off and crash, fix it ad nauseum. I eventually got tired of it and stopped messing with it. I did get to where I could hover some for a little while and then I tried flying it and crashed.
I think at the time there was a small German business that made a RC Gyro (mechanical not all electronic), but it cost like $250.00 US in 1974 dollars and was way too expensive for me at the time. So we would try flying sans gyro then.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by earlwb View Post

(removed the bla bla)

I think at the time there was a small German business that made a RC Gyro (mechanical not all electronic), but it cost like $250.00 US in 1974 dollars and was way too expensive for me at the time. So we would try flying sans gyro then.
And so we arrived at the electrical rotary twin rotor motor, part of the Robbe Autopilot (RC Gyro).
OK, OK, the Rotary action isn't much, but "Rotary" it is for sure because the whole Rotary motor has a pivot to rotate!

I also have a Schlüter Heli Baby, but that hasn't a rotary engine.

Electrical Rotary Twin Rotor Motor Flyer.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 03:32 PM
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Remember the first gyros that had a small electric motor with a small flywheel on each end. Lucky to get an hrs run time before the bronze bushings wore out.

Gord.
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 03:32 PM
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Getting back to "rotary" AND "radial" engines...

Dear Fellow "Starry Engine" Lovers:

The PIPE Here once again - I've got that Adams-Farwell video bookmarked in my Firefox browser to be able to view it at just about any time !!

Radial engines, almost always with that ODD number of cylinders, can be either "rotary" OR "stationary". Rotary radial mills were devised as first done as early as 1892 in France, with one Felix Millet's motorcycle...it was only three years later that Fay Oliver Farwell whipped up his first three-jug rotary radial mill, on the way to the three and five-jug rotary radial mills for the Adams-Farwell automobile with the next decade's worth of time.

Stephen Balzer came up with a five-jug STATIONARY, liquid-cooled radial engine — perhaps the first one ever conceived of — in 1901-02 to power first a very airworthy Giant Scale-sized Free Flight tandem-winged scale model, then in a larger version to power the full-scale Langley "Aerodrome" tandem-wing pioneer aircraft...THAT tandem-wing bird "never flew" in its original 1903 form in a man-carrying size, but it sure loved taking SWIMS in the Potomac River...!!!

The aviation side of rotary radial mills DID generally get its start with Augustin, Laurent and Louis Séguin in 1908-09 as they created the grandaddy of ALL Pioneer Era and WW I rotary mills, the Gnôme Omega. The original prototype example of the Gnôme Omega, believe it or not, IS STILL AROUND, with one of its slightly later "brethren" from the production line in 1909 still able to run even today, right here IN the USA...even though IT only starts when IT wants to......!!

WW I was, of course, the "heyday" of the rotary radial mill, but even then there WAS a line of stationary radials built by Henri Salmson of France, based on a design by Swiss-French engineers Georges Canton and Pierre Unne. The so-called "Canton-Unne" liquid-cooled stationary radials were built from the time of the Gnôme Omega rotary mill onwards to 1920, with the nine-cylinder ones used to power the Salmson 2A2 observation bipes used by both the French and AMERICANS in World War I, putting out a then-impressive 200 horsepower.

I'm afraid that "ahrma_581" GOOFED it a bit (whoops) when he replied that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahrma_581 View Post
Let's not forget the Siemens Schuckert DIII, which actually had a true rotary radial: the prop turned one direction and the cylinders the other.
...as he MIGHT have forgot that the Siemens Sh.III rotary mill STILL had its prop bolted directly onto the crankcase and cylinders, as with any other German "umlaufmotor", while a set of BEVEL GEARS contained within the rear end of the spinning crankcase allowed just the engine's "innards" (crankshaft and conrods) to spin in the OPPOSITE direction !!

Of course, the oil-SWILLING behavior of the rotary mill, with its "total-loss lubrication system" — not to mention all that WHIRLING mass of metal taking up more and more of the mill's power output simply to spin it as rotary mills themselves got more and more powerful — spelled their doom, and by 1920 the air-cooled brethren of the French Canton-Unne liquid-cooled stationary radials began to rapidly take over, starting with the nine-jug British ABC Dragonfly "piece of junk" mill from 1917. The first really reliable, mass-produced stationary air-cooled radials for aviation purposes appeared after World War I, with the Bristol Jupiter going into production from the UK, and very shortly thereafter, the firm founded by Orville and Wilbur (two bike-making guys from Dayton, perhaps?) made the first examples of the Wright Whirlwind in 1923, followed by "some firm near NYC" with their very famous Wasp mills in 1925.

The small radials that we know of in model form, from Saito, OS, Magnum/ASP, Evolution (they now make radial mills based on Wolfgang Seidel's designs) and even the growing range of the giant-sized Moki five-jug gasser radials have had a great record...and I'll always enjoy seeing Ray Williams fly HIS home-built rotary mill-powered Giant Scalers at Old Rhinebeck — where, by the way, THEY may be flying full-scale, MANNED rotary-powered aircraft again before too much longer, I'd bet!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE....!!
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Old Sep 11, 2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Taurus Flyer View Post
........ thanks Taurus Flyer.

You are welcome Reginald.
You were the pilot ?
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