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Old May 22, 2011, 02:31 PM
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Build Log
Avonds F-104 Starfighter

I clicked off 'build log' on this thread, but truth be told I'm not starting the build yet, just looking to get set up for it in the fall. Still debating to build this next or the Avonds F-16, of which I have both NIB kits.

The basic specs for the F-104 is that it's 1/7th scale, with a 44" wingspan (inc tip tanks) and 94" length. The DF version weighs about 7.5kg (16.5 lbs) dry and the Turbine version is about 7.5 kg dry. If you go with the scale landing gear Philip offers it's closer to 8.8 kg dry. My kit is the DF version with the larger intakes, and with this version you can't use the scale gear (the intakes are in the way). I have a set of new Robart retracts for this model that I plan on using.

So the first, a likely the biggest question mark I face is what to use for power? Maybe I can get some thoughts on this subject from RCG readers?

All of Philip's DF designs are based on the Ramtec fan with a 130mm OD. I have a new Dynemax fan without a motor and thought that may work. But it may be a little large with an estimated FSA of 108 cm2. I've attached some pics of the duct work as well as a quick sketch I did in CAD to work out the areas.

I'd like to leave the shock cones in the inlets as they are designed to be permanently installed. If I go with them then something like a SM110-52 or a DS77HST may be the best installed fan as I work up the inlet area to be about 100cm2. The SM110-45 may be ideal but I'd prefer a larger blade count.

The other thought was to make the shock cones static only and remove them for flight, just leaving the cone shape painted on the fuse so the still appeared to me there in the air (see attached picture of the CAF 12701 scheme I plan on doing). This would add about another 20 cm2 in the inlet area. If that's the case perhaps I could run with the dynemax fan?

I've done a rough weight of all the kit items and I get a total of 9.96 lbs. This does include brakes which I may not add. I think coming in around 18lbs is realistic (depending of course on he weight of the fan and number of cells chosen). A dynemax on 12S is about 5.75 lbs.

Welcome any thoughts, suggestions, etc on this topic. Thanks!

Sean
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Old May 22, 2011, 03:34 PM
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EDF all the way!
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I'm helping Steve Slachta at Aeroloft Designs to convert their F-104 (panel line version of Philp Avonds kit) Going with a RamTec fan , Hacker A50-10L Turnado motor) This set up pulls 114 AMPs on 12S providing 23,500 RPM which is aprox. 14 lb to 15 lbs of thrust.
Bob
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Old May 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
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nice colour scheme. wonder why you picked that!? LOL.
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Old May 22, 2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruff View Post
I'm helping Steve Slachta at Aeroloft Designs to convert their F-104 (panel line version of Philp Avonds kit) Going with a RamTec fan , Hacker A50-10L Turnado motor) This set up pulls 114 AMPs on 12S providing 23,500 RPM which is aprox. 14 lb to 15 lbs of thrust.
Bob
That makes sense Bob, isn't Aeroloft an importer of the ramtec? How are you and steve dealing with the inlet area and shock cones?
What is the wait of Steve's airframe? Thanks for contributung!
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Old May 22, 2011, 05:50 PM
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nice colour scheme. wonder why you picked that!? LOL.
Too predictable??. I actually like the bright red stab and tip tanks for contrast against the fuse and wings.
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Old May 22, 2011, 06:22 PM
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EDF all the way!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strictlyscale View Post
That makes sense Bob, isn't Aeroloft an importer of the ramtec? How are you and steve dealing with the inlet area and shock cones?
What is the wait of Steve's airframe? Thanks for contributung!
Yes they are. They are working with Hacker for a power system fan. This new Hacker has an 8 mm shaft. The helicopter guys have taken it to 6000 WATTs with no problems. Still doing some test. Should be flying a setup with a few weeks. The F-104 is due to be completed for the fall flying season.
Bob
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Old May 22, 2011, 09:34 PM
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Cf-104

I totally agree. it looks awesome with the red on it. here's a pic from the Heritage museum I volunteer at. if you would like some more, I can certainly take more. we also have one that's painted for the Tiger meet. enjoy the pic of the gate guard.
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Old May 22, 2011, 09:49 PM
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deltas are cool
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the front of the Ramtec shroud is larger than the Dynamax . the EDF ramtec has a smaller rotor than the ICDF RamTec so if it was designed for the glow Ramtec the Dynamax should be fine
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Old May 22, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Been waiting for this one!
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Old May 23, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
I totally agree. it looks awesome with the red on it. here's a pic from the Heritage museum I volunteer at. if you would like some more, I can certainly take more. we also have one that's painted for the Tiger meet. enjoy the pic of the gate guard.
I do have some pics of that gate guard, pretty cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
the front of the Ramtec shroud is larger than the Dynamax . the EDF ramtec has a smaller rotor than the ICDF RamTec so if it was designed for the glow Ramtec the Dynamax should be fine
AS, when you say the dynamax should be fine, do you mean physically fit, or do you mean in function with the available inlet area? Would you include the shock cones? How about remove the inner portion from the fan end of the inlet that would avoid the fans spinner? Not sure a good term for it.


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Been waiting for this one!
Me too!
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Old May 23, 2011, 11:08 AM
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deltas are cool
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Scale, the Dynamax and icdf ramtec are really close to being the same in fsa, the newer EDf Ramtec has a smaller FSA but the same dia as the ICdf Ramtec which is @2mm larger than the Dynamax . so since this kit is older and was designed for the ICDF ramtec id say the Dynamax would perform very well ,maybe even with the shock cones on . to me the F-104 just aint right with no shock cones ,but i like your idea of fakeing them for flying if you had to.
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Old May 23, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Nice, Nice, Nice!!!!!!!!!
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Old May 23, 2011, 02:47 PM
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Hi,
Wonderful project here !!
Avonds F-104 or the F-16 seem to me like the perfect planes to go with a high power 127mm unit in it !!
Especially the F-16 with Fred`s Mariah unit or even with a Schuebeler HST
fan would be a real show catcher !!
Looking forward to this F-104 getting set up !!
see you
Hans
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Old May 23, 2011, 03:25 PM
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strictlyscale ,

If you want to have any parts like formers made and cut from carbon fiber check out DA Graphite. http://www.da-graphite.com/ They make car rc car pans an helicopter parts or anything else carbon. Trust me they have the Best prices! The best I have found. You get a coupla formers cut and a carbon sheet cheaper then just buying a sheet somewhere else! Dave is the owner .Tell him you know Lavelle Sheppard and he will charge you more! lol JK
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Old May 23, 2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
so since this kit is older and was designed for the ICDF ramtec id say the Dynamax would perform very well ,maybe even with the shock cones on . to me the F-104 just aint right with no shock cones ,but i like your idea of fakeing them for flying if you had to.
I agree, just thinking ahead about my options. I'm pretty sure I'll go with the Dynemax and use what I have, although I just noticed that mine has a 6mm collet, not an 8mm collet so if I get a larger motor i'll need a matching collet. I have the SC 4035 630kV from Fred in my F18 but for this one I was thinking of going with the 5035 650kV like Sapac offer. They make a higher powered version but the amp draw is really high on it, higher than I'd like to go. May be easier to just order the new unit from them and sell my NIB DM with 6mm collet, we'll see. At least the construction can commence without a final motor decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hofer View Post
Hi,
Wonderful project here !!
Avonds F-104 or the F-16 seem to me like the perfect planes to go with a high power 127mm unit in it !!
Especially the F-16 with Fred`s Mariah unit or even with a Schuebeler HST
fan would be a real show catcher !!
Looking forward to this F-104 geeting set up !!
see you
Hans
Hans, thanks for stopping in. i have a ds94hst but it currently has another home, wonderful piece of craftsmanship. I'd love to get another for this model, maybe the 77 would be better, but it's currently cost prohibitive for me. So I'll try to utilize what I already have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheppard559 View Post
strictlyscale ,

If you want to have any parts like formers made and cut from carbon fiber check out DA Graphite. http://www.da-graphite.com/ They make car rc car pans an helicopter parts or anything else carbon. Trust me they have the Best prices! The best I have found. You get a coupla formers cut and a carbon sheet cheaper then just buying a sheet just a sheet somewhere else! Dave is the owner .Tell him you know Lavelle Sheppard and he will charge you more! lol JK
Lavelle, nice lead, thanks! Did you build a CJM F104? What parts did you get made up?
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