Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 18, 2014, 07:07 PM
yank and bank!!
Joined May 2013
1,848 Posts
Discussion
falling out of love with DT foam....

The title says it all.... I am tired of the weight of the paper that falls off if water is within a mile of it and the foam itself kinda breaks down after a little abuse. I'm not too fond of the waviness either.

What do you guys think of depron and MPF after the typical bumps of transporting and flying planes built with them? I'm considering MPF in the future to support startup businesses and because the cost of depron charged by various websites is the textbook definition of insanity.
failboat is offline Find More Posts by failboat
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 18, 2014, 07:53 PM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,444 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by failboat View Post
...What do you guys think of depron and MPF...
Which foam? 9mm Depron? 6mm Depron? Laminated MPF? 6mm MPF? 9mm EPP?
Depronicus is online now Find More Posts by Depronicus
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2014, 10:00 PM
Registered User
maurice076's Avatar
United States, MI, Warren
Joined Aug 2011
641 Posts
I too have tired of it,awhile ago.Seemed like the tiniest collision with anything busted it all up.Unless it's laminated with packing tape that is.

Now I tend to use a combination of MPF and EPP(all thicknesses).I think the guy's might try a 3mm MPF soon.Don't quote me on that!
maurice076 is online now Find More Posts by maurice076
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2014, 10:12 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2013
8 Posts
Paper

You can always take the paper off, or coat it with a polyurethane something like Minwax . I normally build without the paper.
Gerald Sharp is offline Find More Posts by Gerald Sharp
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2014, 10:21 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
SE MI
Joined Oct 2004
9,545 Posts
Definitely without paper, unless you live in AZ, and then up where it is really dry. And let the plane tell you which foam. Light, floaty, slow ok in readiboard. Anything else andit needs tape, film, wbpuand paper or glass. Bigger, heavier, faster wants MPF.
springer is online now Find More Posts by springer
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 19, 2014, 12:44 AM
Registered User
IAFoamie's Avatar
Joined May 2012
148 Posts
It is FOAM and it was a dollar a sheet. Bamboo or tape or some extra item to protect.
With that said 1/2 pink foam will take a beating if you have a 40 to 50 inch plane in mine.

IAFoamie
IAFoamie is offline Find More Posts by IAFoamie
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2014, 02:20 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Feb 2010
239 Posts
In my very limited experience:
1 - I also am not impressed with DTF,
2 - I have been Laminating everything with tissue paper and gorilla glue and spray of water (treating gorilla glue as a two part glue between sheets of foam),
3 - for fuselages I have started to use thicker foam that I found at Home-Depot and Lowes, comes in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets (lifetime supply), and thicknesses from 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 inches thick, after laminating my fuselage is nice and firm, maybe a little heavy but strong.

Current projects have most electronics fitting in a slot in 1" foam fuselage and a relatively large motor mount out front, the next iteration will try to put most electronics in a slot in 3/4" foam fuselage.

your mileage may vary, good luck
JD
JD-Slow-Thumbs is offline Find More Posts by JD-Slow-Thumbs
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2014, 02:35 AM
"Fly, yes... Land, No"
OutcastZeroOne's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Cruz
Joined May 2005
1,328 Posts
I think most people end up removing the paper. the bond of the paper to the foam is very poor. the paper is only applied as the foam sets, so only a few stray strands of fiber hold it to the foam, no glue.

On my latest build I actually glued some nice high quality paper back onto the center layer of my KF4 wing to give it strength. Worked great. I used rubber cement to glue the paper down it it was like a 2' wide roll of 20lbs paper. Like a big roll of printer paper.
OutcastZeroOne is offline Find More Posts by OutcastZeroOne
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2014, 10:17 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2012
22 Posts
If bumps are the issue, then try epp. It can tear, but bumps do very little damage. It is different to work with, but there is a sticky thread that helps. All polysterene foams will crush. You just have to hit them hard enough. You can spread the impact load with leading edge bbq skewers, tapes, and papers, but puncture wounds and hard impacts will result in damaged foam. I just cut out the crushed part and replace it.
all my $ tree builds are with the paper off. I use coffee filters with wbpu to strengthen in a few places. Works well up to about 25 inch wingspan.
you will find mpf a better foam. No waves at all. The 6mm is too thick for small planes, but great for larger spans. Im working through a box now.
mojoteri is offline Find More Posts by mojoteri
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2014, 12:08 PM
Registered User
Canada
Joined Nov 2000
6,944 Posts
IF and only if you are enamoured with paper covered illustration board foam builds
(too heavy for my tastes)
Then buy decent quality stuff. 1$ stuff is erm..the lowest possible quality
Begining with Elmers Redi Board from Michaels', typically going up to Bienfang illustration boards (at triple the cost of Elmers.)
Higher quality stuff has fewer and fewer paper water/delamination issues comensurate with price. As always.:-)
Bare is online now Find More Posts by Bare
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2014, 12:27 PM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
12,996 Posts
I know I shouldn't really use the 'B' word in here, but have you considered making models using ........... balsa, (sorry ).



Personally I really like Depron, 6mm and 3mm for building models, (mainly because in the UK it's a lot cheaper than balsa). I still use some balsa for spars etc.

I'm currently looking at a model in the 110" range in Depron, my previous biggest was only 90".

Considering poster 'billisfree' is using cardboard and some hardwood to build and fly models, I don't think DTF can be all that bad.
eflightray is online now Find More Posts by eflightray
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2014, 12:37 PM
yank and bank!!
Joined May 2013
1,848 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray View Post
I know I shouldn't really use the 'B' word in here, but have you considered making models using ........... balsa, (sorry ).
You HERETIC!!!

Yes, I have at times.... and even though I rarely out and out crash these days the repair time for balsa and ply is just more than I want to devote.

I've confirmed my LHS has depron so I can try small amounts of it.... I'm considering duplicating and improving my current scratchbuilt with the same kind of rib, stringer, and former construction used for balsa... maybe 6mm for spars, stringers, and midship bulkheads and 2mm for external surfaces.
failboat is offline Find More Posts by failboat
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 22, 2014, 07:13 AM
Registered User
United States, WA, Moses Lake
Joined Feb 2012
416 Posts
Well the devil is in the details. For a quick crash and bash plane with an armin foamboard wing I don't see how you can beat the dollar store foam. My dollartree is five minutes away. My local hobby shop is 90 miles away and he thinks depron is gold. Before I lay out that money I'd buy a balsa kit and some monocote and try a built up job. I think your wasting your time with foam built up wing cause I don't think it would have enough torsional strength. It gets to be a lot of work so when you crash and bust it you cry a little. Been there done that.

I built up balsa wings on my old gasser control line planes in the 70's. If I did it again it would be for something special though like a nice glider or something where you really notice the difference in the airfoils. I wouldn't do it for most low aspect ratio planes though because realistically you aren't going to get that much better flight out of it to make it worth all the work. With the power to weight ratios that we have with these lipos and motors I think you could fly a garbage can lid anyway. So an extra ounce of paper on a 16 ounce plane doesn't make much difference when you have a 40 ounce thrust motor hanging on it for me anyway. The quick and dirty construction is worth it for that. I don't like the paper blistering either but I hear oil base minwax sticks it down good I'm going to try that as soon as I bust the one I am working on now.

I guess I consider foam as construction lumber anyhow and why try to put lipstick on a pig? If you want a nice looking plane build this http://www.alofthobbies.com/avia.html
Low and Slow is offline Find More Posts by Low and Slow
Last edited by Low and Slow; Feb 22, 2014 at 10:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 22, 2014, 10:46 AM
Look out below
mcnowhere's Avatar
United States, OR, McMinnville
Joined Aug 2011
1,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low and Slow View Post
Well the devil is in the details.I think your wasting your time with foam built up wing cause I don't think it would have enough torsional strength. It gets to be a lot of work so when you crash and bust it you cry a little. Been there done that.

The quick and dirty construction is worth it for that. I don't like the paper blistering either but I hear oil base minwax sticks it down good I'm going to try that as soon as I bust the one I am working on now.
I am not the master builder, but my 2 cents is the Ftest wing is very strong and very easy.
I think I could almost stand on this wing and not dent it. If I remember right they took this wing to 100mph. You could change the length/width and or resize to shape any wing to your liking.

The first 10 min of the vid is the wing build so give it a look.
Maybe waste a $1 on dtf and try one wing?

Flite Test - FT Racer (Slinger) - BUILD (55 min 22 sec)
mcnowhere is offline Find More Posts by mcnowhere
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 22, 2014, 11:37 AM
Registered User
United States, WA, Moses Lake
Joined Feb 2012
416 Posts
I like the build methods of those flight test planes myself I have built two versa wings I can cut fold glue and have it put together in an hour easy. Problem for me is the fuselage cause I don't like piling lead in the nose to balance it so I hotwired a laminated pink foam fuselage monoblock like this: I even covered the fuse with masking paper and wood glue, have a 3/4 thick pink foam keel under it back to the stick mount for a landing skid and covered the wings with white towercoat on top of the paper. All up she weighs 20 ounces without the tips installed. I'll stripe the top orange and the bottom black and call it done. When I crash it (not if), I don't really care I'll have a new one tomorrow. Next time though I won't even bother with the tower coat I'll minwax the paper instead.

This one is a little heavier than the other one cause of the covering and also I incorporated two wooden dowels and some popsicle sticks to beef it up inside. It will fly fine this motor came off a heavier plane than this.Plenty of power for medium speed.WS is forty inches so two bucks worth of foamboard. I won't cry when I crack it up trying to be a pylon racer lol. I would rather use carbon than wood but I don't have any. I think I'll order some from these guys
https://goodwinds.com/
Low and Slow is offline Find More Posts by Low and Slow
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion First Flight - Falls out of the Sky! TexomaEV Multirotor Talk 37 Dec 27, 2013 03:18 PM
Discussion bad DT foam? failboat Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 14 Dec 24, 2013 07:48 AM
Discussion UK Media Fall "Out of Love" with Obama craab Life, The Universe, and Politics 6 Jun 17, 2010 09:15 AM