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Old Jan 08, 2010, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Steven Chao View Post
Hmmm... A blanket statement as such is an obvious grievance or advertisement. RCEXL is also Chinese. So I fail your point.

Too often we see misuse of these ignition. I would definitely would say that the instructions can be better. Secondly, dealer support should be much better. However, consumer not holding their dealers accountable can be devastating to our industry. Have you even contacting the store that you have purchased the engine or ignition from?

I see this is your first post. Are you from Australia? From whom did you purchase your engine from. Have you contact them? In USA, we see very limited failures with the North American version. Perhaps you want to explain or show us how you are using the product, and why is it failing for you?


Peace,
Steven Chao,
CERMARK
Mr Chao this is no blanket statement. I went to my dealer, told to contact Aust Agent. Aust agent couldnt be bothered, told I had to contact Cermark myself. Got the run around here too. Finally after much insistence on my part I was put BACK in touch with Aust agent who E V E N T U A L L Y replaced it. Get my subtle point here ! I sold the melody Ignition. The SPE still wouldnt run right. It now runs just fine in the BIN. my mate says they make great boat anchors.

People buy DL engines and save yourself the agony.

And another thing Mr Chao, you often preach of holding dealers accountable, come on, do you realistically believe that to be true.
This was a typical chinese item that flooded the market and was accompanied by NO backup support from the manufacturer, hence the reason my local hobby shop will no longer deal with Austars.

Im more than happy to give credit where credit is due BUT its not in this case. If you really want the customer to follow and support your product as it develops STAND UP and accept that you implementation and initial QC was.....well....crap !

Still FUMING over this experience in an otherwise enjoyable hobby.

Stop making excuses, accept the critisism and support the customers who got a less than adequate product.
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Old Jan 08, 2010, 09:23 PM
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Yes it was my first post....your point ?

Yes I am from Australia, Care to guess the number of customers in my local club that have had issues with Austar, you dont have anywhere near the number of fingers or toes required to count this high !

The product was setup and used correctly despite the quality of the so called manual

The unit was simply faulty, coupled with a less than capable engine itself it made for a poor experience.

credit where credit is due, Austars did replace it but why does a customer have to almost beg ?

Ill explain why it was failing for me .........IT WAS FAULTY.

I have since done what I should have done in the first place and installed a DL engine. Runs just fine NO (being zero) problems.

Still FUMING !!!
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Old Jan 09, 2010, 03:16 AM
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SydneyFlyer,

This is was your original post "Throw away the melody junk and just get a RCEXL - This chinese stuffs crap." Well here are a few problem with your statement.

1. RCEXL is Chinese.
2. RCeXL OEM their ignitions to many companies internationally.
3. You have send many emails (angery and unfounded) to me. Our comany has nothing to do with your purchase. In addition, blackmail does not bold well with us.
4. Like I previously mentioned, as a curtousy we offered to service your engine for free if you send it to us... You chose not to. You wanted us to send a particular part to you without inspection nor return. Unfortunately, we don't do so as a policy. All engine that pass a warranty repair must be inspected and recorded by our engine experts due to liability and North American Warranty policy.
5. You failed to mentioned that you purchased from Internet. I believe via Ebay.
6. From infromation I was forwarded, the particular person that you purchased the engine from does not service engines, and knew that batch of engine was not under warranty, because of special arrangement made with distributor.
7. You chose not to provide me any of that information while I contacted the factory and the Australian distributor on your behalf. It was disheartening to find a person that you went to bat for (internationally), did not provide me all of the information.

Yes, I do believe in holding dealers accountable. I believe in holding distributors and manufacturers accountable. However I also believe in holding buyers responsible. If I go to a store and buy milk. The milk turns out bad. I will take it back to the store (if possible with a receipt) for an exchange. So why is it in your case, you felt compelled that CERMARK, North American distributor, should service your MLD engine after you made the Internet purchase in Australia?

As it turns out, there were other complications that arrised from your prior contacts with us. You only contacted us when both your seller, Australian dealers and your Australian distributor no longer wish to communicate with you. Surprisingly, you failed to mention any of this to me as CERMARK went to bat on your behalf to obtain warranty services for you.

You can use the MLD engine as an anchor. Unfortuantely, you have lost the creditabilty with me. I will make it a point, to not allow individuals like yourself to use forum such as this to slander or to blackmail companies for your personal gain.
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Old Jan 09, 2010, 10:35 PM
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Just the Fact Maam !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Chao View Post
SydneyFlyer,

This is was your original post "Throw away the melody junk and just get a RCEXL - This chinese stuffs crap." Well here are a few problem with your statement.

1. RCEXL is Chinese.
2. RCeXL OEM their ignitions to many companies internationally.
3. You have send many emails (angery and unfounded) to me. Our comany has nothing to do with your purchase. In addition, blackmail does not bold well with us.
4. Like I previously mentioned, as a curtousy we offered to service your engine for free if you send it to us... You chose not to. You wanted us to send a particular part to you without inspection nor return. Unfortunately, we don't do so as a policy. All engine that pass a warranty repair must be inspected and recorded by our engine experts due to liability and North American Warranty policy.
5. You failed to mentioned that you purchased from Internet. I believe via Ebay.
6. From infromation I was forwarded, the particular person that you purchased the engine from does not service engines, and knew that batch of engine was not under warranty, because of special arrangement made with distributor.
7. You chose not to provide me any of that information while I contacted the factory and the Australian distributor on your behalf. It was disheartening to find a person that you went to bat for (internationally), did not provide me all of the information.

Yes, I do believe in holding dealers accountable. I believe in holding distributors and manufacturers accountable. However I also believe in holding buyers responsible. If I go to a store and buy milk. The milk turns out bad. I will take it back to the store (if possible with a receipt) for an exchange. So why is it in your case, you felt compelled that CERMARK, North American distributor, should service your MLD engine after you made the Internet purchase in Australia?

As it turns out, there were other complications that arrised from your prior contacts with us. You only contacted us when both your seller, Australian dealers and your Australian distributor no longer wish to communicate with you. Surprisingly, you failed to mention any of this to me as CERMARK went to bat on your behalf to obtain warranty services for you.

You can use the MLD engine as an anchor. Unfortuantely, you have lost the creditabilty with me. I will make it a point, to not allow individuals like yourself to use forum such as this to slander or to blackmail companies for your personal gain.
Well Mr Chao, firstly, its good to see you enter into conversation regarding your product. Thank you for that.

This is a Forum, its a place for buyers, sellers etc to post comments, questions etc about products or experiences. As a seller unfortunately you cant just cut a person from a thread because you feel its no longer helping your glowing image. Take the good (yes there has been plenty of good posts re your products) with the bad.

This is not a slanging match, its an opportunity to allow consumers to get COMPLETE pictures about their products.

Now for the FACTS:

1. YOUR company does have something to do with this purchase because it was your Australian Distributor who told me I had to liase with you. I did not approach you without pursuing the correct avenues first.

2. YOUR Australian distributor (Austar Models) was selling the engines through a close friend on eBay himself. His comment that the engine did not come with warranty is garbage and is a breach of Australian consumer law. He knew these engine would come back to him and when persons such as myself chose to argue his "illegal" trade practices he simply passed the buck to you. THIS IS FACT so please dont argue this again !!!

3. I did not need my engine serviced, I needed a faulty ignition REPLACED, as was my legal entitlement under law. Addittionally your Australian distributor sent the warranty information with the engine when I purchased it. that is why your offer was rejected. I have an email here from you admitting the initial igntions (of which my engine had) had some issues and an updated ignition had been produced.

4. I offered to send my faulty ignition to Austars for evaluation and replacement, this is what eventually happened. Why should I send a part to China when it was purchased in Australia ?

5. As for your MILK analogy, I did take the ignition to the supplier, it turned out to be a 'front' run on eBay by Austars models Australia. YES THATS RIGHT MR CHAO YOUR DISTRIBUTOR WAS SELLING YOUR PRODUCTS WITH YOUR SUPPORT ON EBAY AND CLAIMING HE DID NOT HAVE TO OFFER A WARRANTY.

6. The same Australian distributor was able to get most hobby shops immediately off side by undercutting them on ebay. Austars were selling the engine on ebay for a lower price than what he was wholesaling them to hobby shops. Thats why I bought there. Furthermore I know for fact when I looked into this fiasco that Austars was basically banished by most hobby shops. i know for a fact that one rang him and told him that all the Cermark stock had just been placed on the curb outside his shop and if he wanted to get it back he had better come and pick it up. This is why Austars had to start trying to sell his stock directly and opened a retail outlet. no retail hobby shop would deal with him. Some fantastic business trust here.

The point being I was in the middle of all this.

7. I have never once asked cermark or anyone else to service the SPE engine. My issue was with the ignition. I never blackmailled anyone and as for 'slander' I am merely giving others on these forums a BALANCED view of my FACTUAL experience. My email became heated to say the least because all that was happening was a bunch of so called mature adults selling hobby equipment did not want to honour the quality of their products.

Your right Mr Chao I should never have even dealt with you ( not that I did not want to) but the problem should have been solved by the Australian distributor. I am more surprised that you did not think that giving a customer the run around like I got from my experience wth SPE engines would raise the customers level of frustration.

I am sure that Cermark etc has continued to develop their products and hopefully have taken greater steps to determine that a supplier (wholesale) actually practices good business practice. I do however take offence when I try to state the facts of a poor experience with a products and CONSTANTLY have the manufacturer/supplier/representative try to EVADE THE FACTS.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for an opportunity to voice MY EXPERIENCE
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 04:21 AM
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Again SydneyFlyer,

I do not understand why you keep referring to CERMARK as if CERMARK is the manufacturer. I will repeat this for the last time. We are the exclusive North American SPE and MLD engine exclusive distributor.

You obviously have a problem understand the difference between manufacturers and distributors. Manufacturers make the products. Distributors distribute the products in a given area/territory.

If you purchase a Japanese Nikon camera in Australia, why are you slaming Nikon USA of sales and service channel in Australia and of Internet?

You listed all things above that have ZERO connection to us. CERMARK is a distributor in United States for 25+ years distributing many brands. MLD and SPE are 2 of many brands that we carry for our customers. MLD factory has a distributor in Australia that is not affliated with CERMARK. Other than being friends with the Austar Models, MLD Australian distributor, we have ZERO in common. We don't even do business with Austars Model. I made that very clear to you from the very start. So I have no idea why you insist that Austar is one of my distributor.

CERMARK does have a distribor in Australia. Your slander and incorrect information can cause harm to our Australian distributor. Therefore I am greatly offended. So, may I suggest you verify your facts now that you have been properly informed again. In the future, I will consider any mis-information or incorrect facts that you continue to post to be slander.

I don't mind you posting your opinions. You are entitled to your opinions. However, when it comes to facts regarding CERMARK, I will to be firm.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 05:25 AM
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Listen !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Chao View Post
Again SydneyFlyer,

I do not understand why you keep referring to CERMARK as if CERMARK is the manufacturer. I will repeat this for the last time. We are the exclusive North American SPE and MLD engine exclusive distributor.

You obviously have a problem understand the difference between manufacturers and distributors. Manufacturers make the products. Distributors distribute the products in a given area/territory.

If you purchase a Japanese Nikon camera in Australia, why are you slaming Nikon USA of sales and service channel in Australia and of Internet?

You listed all things above that have ZERO connection to us. CERMARK is a distributor in United States for 25+ years distributing many brands. MLD and SPE are 2 of many brands that we carry for our customers. MLD factory has a distributor in Australia that is not affliated with CERMARK. Other than being friends with the Austar Models, MLD Australian distributor, we have ZERO in common. We don't even do business with Austars Model. I made that very clear to you from the very start. So I have no idea why you insist that Austar is one of my distributor.

CERMARK does have a distribor in Australia. Your slander and incorrect information can cause harm to our Australian distributor. Therefore I am greatly offended. So, may I suggest you verify your facts now that you have been properly informed again. In the future, I will consider any mis-information or incorrect facts that you continue to post to be slander.

I don't mind you posting your opinions. You are entitled to your opinions. However, when it comes to facts regarding CERMARK, I will to be firm.
I know SPE are made in China !!!

I know Cermark are a distributor for SPE in NE !!!

I know Austars Models is (or was) the Australian Distributor of SPE engines !!!

I was placed in contact with YOU Mr Choa, by the Australian agent. You opened dialogue with me regarding the problem I had had with my ignition. I questioned whether I should have been talking to you in the first place. This was what I was told to do by YOUR FRIEND Austars. as for having Zero to do with this thats not entirely correct as you did intervene in this situation.

I have made no comment nor will I regarding Cermark in general or their other products so stop trying to intimidate someone with your slander rubbish.

Consumers have a right to know how they might expect to be treated if a product fails to live up to its claims. This is a forum that allows consumers to do this. If in turn it puts a manufacturer or distributor in poor light then thats bad luck unfortunately. It gives the consumers the right to decide for themselves as they have done with YOUR FRIEND at Austars models.

I too think its riduculous to have to go to a North American DISTRIBUTOR (Happy....ther I said it) to get a faulty item purchased in Australia rectified. Your FRIEND at Austars directed me to do this. That is what I did. I went through what would be considered the normal correct avenues before I ended up speaking with you. You chose to intervene. You had the choice in the very first instance to instruct me to go back to Austars but you chose to get involved. You are involved in this situation....FACT

Ultimately you did direct me back to Austars and I give credit where credit is due that no doubt your intervention led to some movement in the situation

Subsequently I was finally directed back to Austars by you but at that point you WERE involved as you were participating in a warranty claim for your FRIEND.

Your offence bothers me very little

Yours friend business practices bother me MORE, it also has bothered others at my club. But thats heresay so i wont speak for them.

There has been NO slander only fact on my part which I can back up with your emails and those of Austars which I have kept.

Cermarks Australian distributor has nothing to do with this and has never been implicated or mentioned in this matter so please stop with your offence dribble. I have dealt with the Cermark Australian distributor on another matter and found their customer service excellent. He does not need you to fight his battles for hime as hes doing a great job and is a credit to the industry.

I own a Cermark Extra 260,is and always has been a satisfactory product.

Rather than poorly attempting to school me in definitions I suggest you take the time to re-read the SPE engine warranty then take the time you spend here arguing to EXPLAIN it to YOUR FRIEND at Austars models. Im sure when you take on the distributorship of an item you accept you need to provide customer support for it locally...good and bad.

Seems to me your comments show your now trying to distance yourself again through poor analogies.....Ho Hum !!!!!!

FOR EVERYONE ON THIS AND OTHE SPE FORUMS HERES "MY OPINION"

SPE engines of my vintage were underpeforming to say the least.

FOR ME.........DL engines have been a far better engine than SPE.

These are fact....no slander......no heresay.....just fact. Read my posts very carefully prior to making any outlandish slander comments Mr Chao, consider yourself CAUTIONED in this area.

What a disaster .................................................. ............
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 08:07 PM
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Like I posted, you are now fully aware of my position. If I sound like a dribble, then be it. I will point to the facts, and I have the documentations and emails that you have send me to support my positions.

I have never had to delete my words so many times...
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 11:04 PM
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????? Spelling and Grammar Check Aisle 3 !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Chao View Post
Like I posted, you are now fully aware of my position. If I sound like a dribble, then be it. I will point to the facts, and I have the documentations and emails that you have send me to support my positions.

I have never had to delete my words so many times...
Im enjoying the fact you choose to argue the facts of a situation in which you were clearly involved. Accept that the Australian distributor (I know you claim to not be associated with them but they are by your admission your FRIENDS) handled this case poorly and that you were simply involved.

Everything else shows...In my opinion again as I dont want to risk slander......an evasion of simple facts. I would be more concerned about the picture you paint for future customers who may have difficulties with your products (note my use of the word MAY !!).

Please do us all the honour of at least proof reading your posts to ensure they are coherent and read correctly before posting.

All this could have been solved very easily by you admitting you should never have become involved (on request of Austars) and that you would take steps to ensure your customers get better service.

With all the time Ive wasted here I could have probably got that SPE to run by now.
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 12:48 PM
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SydneyFlyer, Here is your original email dated August 1, 2009. You specifically wrote "...I was wondering if you could help..." You asked for my assistance on an International basis. Hence I was involved your case.

"To: Mr Steve Chiao

I have an SPE26 engine. After following manufacturers instructions I ran the engine in and full adjusted it prior to flight. During the first flight I encountered massive rf interference from the melody ignition and lost a $850 aircraft. Subsequently I checked and rechecked everything and found the melody ignition has the black boot in the plug cap and are notorious for rf interference and running problems. I was advised that you have replaced these ignitions with those with the grey boot. I was wondering if you could help. I like the engine but have very little faith in the faulty ignition I was sold.


"(name & address removed) NSW Australia 2227"

Here was my responding email to you on the August 3, 2009;

"Hi Mr. (name & address removed) ,

We do have the newer ignition. We can do a couple of things;

1. you can get a new ignition.
2. you can get the boot (clear version), so that you can replace older black version.
3. I believe austars-model.com may have the new ignition units in stock for your convenience.

Note: the interference generally come from electrical arching. The Ignition unit and the cable are generally fairly well shielded. We found by adding non conducting grease to the side of the plug, and using a hose clamp to secure the metal boot to plug generally resolve majority of interference issues.
"

As for being friends with Austar Models, hmmm I am sorry I have friends? Are you suggesting that everyone is your enemy if you were running a business or do you only pretend they are your friends? I hope people have more tolerance than what you are suggesting.
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 01:43 PM
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Sydneyflyer, here is your responding email on August 3, 2009
"Hello Steven,

Thank you for your email.

Given what has happened and the fact the ignition is still under warranty I would request that the ignition be replaced with the newer version. Austars Models seems to think the engine and ignition only carry a 12 month warranty although all the literature I have indicates it's a 2 year warranty. Austars are happy to replace the ignition with the newer version although they say they need email confirmation from Cermark first. Can I ask that you email Steve at Austars Models to arrange the replacement of my faulty ignition with the newer version.

I thank you for getting back to me regarding this issue. The posts you have on rc universe certainly show that Cermark is committed to customer service regarding their products. Now all I need to do is find a supplier for your 70” Extra 260 so I can replace the aircraft.

Thank you once again
"

Here in your 2nd email to me, you specifically ask "...Can I ask that you email Steve at Austars Models to arrange the replacement of my faulty ignition with the newer version..." Of course, I make the mistake of mixing up SPE26 with SPE43. However, their manual is similar. The warranty on the North American version is 2 years. I do not know what the factory warranty is. We re-work the SPE-43 to make it a North American Version, hence the extended warranty for concern customers.

As to our airplane, we never sold one to Australia. I know for a fact that Austar Models never sold our product. Our CERMARK distributor never sold that airplane. So when you mentioning our airplane, you actually alerted that you probably purchased your items through Internet and possibly grey market engine. Thus there must be more to what you let on as of August 3, 2009. Unfortunately, there was much more than you originally let on.

I responded on the same day along with an attachment of our SPE-43 North American Manual (pdf), and here it is;

"Mr. (name removed),

I need to clarify our conversation. I was under the impression that the engine was in reasonably new condition, not damaged condition. Secondly, did you purchase the engine from Austars-model? If you did not buy through them or their dealer, then you will need to resolve the matter through the dealer that you have purchased your engine from. It would not be fair to burden Austars-Model with cost of replacement that they did not initiate. If the engine did not go through them, may I suggest that you and Steve come to certain amicable solution to reduce everyone’s losses. Unfortunately, the one that made a profit apparently already took off.

As to a new ignition, perhaps you misunderstood my explanation. You need to send the original back with your paper work/documentations (even if it is a grey market item). You need to contact Austars-Model for their return process method. We are not the same company. We also do not simply change out everyone’s engine parts, every time we make modification. When I wrote “you can get a new ignition,” I meant you can purchase a new ignition. If the original deem defective (due to manufacturing), then we will replace it for you. However that will be after receiving your ignition unit, and testing your ignition unit. Are you certain that your SPE-43 problem resides with ignition?

Again, I have to apologize if my poor explanations misled you, and cause you to jump to a different conclusion. I believe Steve, and staff at Austars-Model is trying their best to help you. Grey market imports is truly hurting everyone’s bottom line. In you case, you may not able to receive the adequate service. I hope you understand, and help them combat grey market product in the future. I have attached a manual for our exclusive North American version of SPE-43. This manual applies exclusively to North American version of SPE-43."
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 07:15 PM
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Thank god for DL Engines !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Chao View Post
Sydneyflyer, here is your responding email on August 3, 2009
"Hello Steven,

Thank you for your email.

Given what has happened and the fact the ignition is still under warranty I would request that the ignition be replaced with the newer version. Austars Models seems to think the engine and ignition only carry a 12 month warranty although all the literature I have indicates it's a 2 year warranty. Austars are happy to replace the ignition with the newer version although they say they need email confirmation from Cermark first. Can I ask that you email Steve at Austars Models to arrange the replacement of my faulty ignition with the newer version.

I thank you for getting back to me regarding this issue. The posts you have on rc universe certainly show that Cermark is committed to customer service regarding their products. Now all I need to do is find a supplier for your 70” Extra 260 so I can replace the aircraft.

Thank you once again
"

Here in your 2nd email to me, you specifically ask "...Can I ask that you email Steve at Austars Models to arrange the replacement of my faulty ignition with the newer version..." Of course, I make the mistake of mixing up SPE26 with SPE43. However, their manual is similar. The warranty on the North American version is 2 years. I do not know what the factory warranty is. We re-work the SPE-43 to make it a North American Version, hence the extended warranty for concern customers.

As to our airplane, we never sold one to Australia. I know for a fact that Austar Models never sold our product. Our CERMARK distributor never sold that airplane. So when you mentioning our airplane, you actually alerted that you probably purchased your items through Internet and possibly grey market engine. Thus there must be more to what you let on as of August 3, 2009. Unfortunately, there was much more than you originally let on.

I responded on the same day along with an attachment of our SPE-43 North American Manual (pdf), and here it is;

"Mr. (name removed),

I need to clarify our conversation. I was under the impression that the engine was in reasonably new condition, not damaged condition. Secondly, did you purchase the engine from Austars-model? If you did not buy through them or their dealer, then you will need to resolve the matter through the dealer that you have purchased your engine from. It would not be fair to burden Austars-Model with cost of replacement that they did not initiate. If the engine did not go through them, may I suggest that you and Steve come to certain amicable solution to reduce everyone’s losses. Unfortunately, the one that made a profit apparently already took off.

As to a new ignition, perhaps you misunderstood my explanation. You need to send the original back with your paper work/documentations (even if it is a grey market item). You need to contact Austars-Model for their return process method. We are not the same company. We also do not simply change out everyone’s engine parts, every time we make modification. When I wrote “you can get a new ignition,” I meant you can purchase a new ignition. If the original deem defective (due to manufacturing), then we will replace it for you. However that will be after receiving your ignition unit, and testing your ignition unit. Are you certain that your SPE-43 problem resides with ignition?

Again, I have to apologize if my poor explanations misled you, and cause you to jump to a different conclusion. I believe Steve, and staff at Austars-Model is trying their best to help you. Grey market imports is truly hurting everyone’s bottom line. In you case, you may not able to receive the adequate service. I hope you understand, and help them combat grey market product in the future. I have attached a manual for our exclusive North American version of SPE-43. This manual applies exclusively to North American version of SPE-43."
Grey market imports !!! Are you joking ???

Im now making this a point re; the SPE brand and their customer support or lack of.

The GREY import was an engine imported by Austars and sold by Austars through a front on eBay. You truely do not read posts prior to reponding.

Grey imports hurting the market......yeah grey imports sold by the SPE distributor.

Your doing yourself no favours.

The emails you posted only bolster my posts and do NOTHING to support yours.

Half of your waffle concerns an aeroplane.....when did this have anything to do with an aeroplane....never...except the poor quality SPE engine caused its loss (along with 3 other aircraft at my local club alone....careful my Chao....thats heresay I know so I dont quote it as fact)

the one that took the profit and took off.....oh my lord ! Hes the one who put me in touch with you.. This just gets better.

" QUOTE...When I wrote “you can get a new ignition,” I meant you can purchase a new ignition. If the original deem defective (due to manufacturing), then we will replace it for you."

When you said "WE" did that mean you and Steve or just you or who.......Im Confused.....I thought you had nothing to do with the...........Oppps another mistake MR CHAO. I meant you could buy another one......OK I guess the warranty is worthless then. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also if your going to post emails they should be posted in their entirity and not amended by you. Theres a large integrity issue here.

By your continual arguing over what should have been a basic warranty issue has only served to show future SPE customers the type of resistance and frustration they can expect from SPE......Well done......Bang !!! That was you shooting yourself in the foot. Keep going you still have another foot.
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