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Old Mar 26, 2012, 11:57 PM
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United States, OH, Canal Winchester
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Dave said in the Sundowner 36 thread that all E-Flite Power motors are under rated but, all can handle more than they are spec'd for.
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Old Mar 27, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akent View Post
Yep, a flight battery is more weight, but it is weight making the plane more reliable.
I always prefer a battery over a BEC, if given an airframe that can carry it. ALWAYS.
BEC or flight pack is a personal choice.
You really can't say that one is more reliable than the other. I've run no flight packs for years now (built in BEC's, external BEC's, or regulators) on everything up to 30cc sized airframes and haven't had a single failure. I did have a flight pack fail in flight once though (lead came apart inside the pack) and I had one that I either forgot to charge, or it went bad in flight.

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Originally Posted by akent View Post
I'm confused now though, GP.
You say, that you have a lighter than stock power system with 2kw.
How can that make your plane MORE nose heavy?
My plane isn't more nose heavy. I have a lighter than specified motor and it's STILL nose heavy. My batteries are Gen Ace 4s 3800 (x2). I believe my packs were lighter than the recommended packs when I was looking up equipment too. I was originally worried that I was going to be tail heavy with my setup.

It would have been nice if the battery tray went all the way back to the rudder servo tray, like the 3DHS, Extreme Flight, and other current electric/gas/glow airframes.
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Old Mar 27, 2012, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuczy View Post
Dave said in the Sundowner 36 thread that all E-Flite Power motors are under rated but, all can handle more than they are spec'd for.
When I said that I wonder if they over spec their power systems, I meant that they seem to recommend power systems that are overkill for the airframe...they seem to error on the side of caution and go big. I have no idea what their motors can handle because I've never used one.

The power system that I used in this plane is recommended by 3D Hobby Shop for their 30cc gas (approx 1.60 glow) 3D airframes!!! I have used it for a few years now in my 70" Slick, so it has stood the test of time at those power levels. Obviously, a .90 sized sport airframe does not need anywhere near that size of a power system, but I went with it since it was lighter than the recommended equipment.
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Old Mar 27, 2012, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by akent View Post
It really is simple to build an extended battery tray for this plane. About a 15 minute job or less.

I plan on doing that as well, as I want to move the CG farther back little by little.
I can move it back some now, but an extended tray will make things easier.

You might want to consider running a flight battery. You can mount that to the servo tray (or even farther back) and offset some of the weight.

I am happy as a Lark at how this plane built and flies. I think their 'electric compromises' work surprisingly well.

Kent
Kent,
Curious on how you would propose to support two thirds of the battery pack hanging off the back of the battery tray?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
Mine with the Power 110 and CC 100 Phoenix almost balances out at the recommended CG point. With the 2 x 4500 45C Nanotechs near the edge of the tray, it's just a tip nose heavy, which I prefer anyway until I get to know the plane more.
ViperZ
I sure would like to know how you can be close to balanced when your batteries weigh 6 oz. more than mine. I'm also running the CC100, but with the CapPack.

If possible could you please get me a tail wheel scal weight (without batteries)that I requested in a previous post. This would be a very good comparison whether there a vast differences in the factory builds.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but on my plane, each inch of battery movement only chnages the CG point about a 1/4". Of course the front of the canopy bulkhead, rear of battery tray is on the CG plane.

For me to move through the 5.0" to 5.5" CG range require me to place the rear of the batteries from 1.5" to 4.0" behind the battery box. The worst case leaves 2/3rd's of the battery unsupported.

Now that I'm committed to making a "Better" Tray, anyone have any good ideas on how to make it quick-change. Maybe dezus fasteners?
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Old Mar 27, 2012, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_O_V8_R View Post
Kent,
Curious on how you would propose to support two thirds of the battery pack hanging off the back of the battery tray?
I have not built the new tray yet. I will try to take a look soon and build one. I might assume it could mount between the existing screw mounts and somewhere near the servo tray.

Just a question: Are you using the TOP WING to measure the CG?

It's too bad we don't live closer. It would be nice to be able to get together to go over what you are seeing.
Maybe some pictures of mine might help? I'll try to take some, but I won't be back in town until next Monday, after tomorrow. I'll try to take some before I leave town.
Kent
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Old Mar 27, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Canada, SK, Saskatoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_O_V8_R View Post
Kent,
Curious on how you would propose to support two thirds of the battery pack hanging off the back of the battery tray?




ViperZ
I sure would like to know how you can be close to balanced when your batteries weigh 6 oz. more than mine. I'm also running the CC100, but with the CapPack.

If possible could you please get me a tail wheel scal weight (without batteries)that I requested in a previous post. This would be a very good comparison whether there a vast differences in the factory builds.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but on my plane, each inch of battery movement only chnages the CG point about a 1/4". Of course the front of the canopy bulkhead, rear of battery tray is on the CG plane.

For me to move through the 5.0" to 5.5" CG range require me to place the rear of the batteries from 1.5" to 4.0" behind the battery box. The worst case leaves 2/3rd's of the battery unsupported.

Now that I'm committed to making a "Better" Tray, anyone have any good ideas on how to make it quick-change. Maybe dezus fasteners?

Well, about the only explanation I would have is my heavier batteries also contribute to weight around or behind the CG point. Either than or I built my with more epoxy in the tail section, thus heavier..

If you are asking for the weight of the plane with just the tail wheel on the scale (mains on the ground) is is 386 grams (13.6 oz)
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 12:02 AM
This is my Nemesis....
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Canada, SK, Saskatoon
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It seems the measurement is between 382 to 386 grams... scale is 1.5" high.

My Hyperion servos are said to be 53 grams each.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 10:15 PM
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ViperZ

Thanks so much for the info. and testing.

I weighed mine with the battery tray installed, but without batteries.
It came in at 423 grams.

So mine is actually a little more tail heavy (1.3 oz.), yet you can get your to balance with the batteries not extending beyond the battery tray. Now I'm really confused.

How did you mount the "power log" - looks sweet!
Since the PowerLog is only 6s rated, how do you get it to work on 8s.
I'll assume one battery, but do you need to take all readings times two?

Looking at your Graphics, which is pretty sweet BTW, I think you will find that the CG is actually inline with the the front of the cowl/raer of battery tray. This means all the battery weight would be forward of the CG point, or otherwise stated, the battery CG is #" forward of plane theor. CG.

My plane will balance within the recommended range without batteries installed (approx. 5" CG). Theor. this means I need to mount my batteries sticking out 50% of there length, or 3.0". To get to 5.5" I need to push them rearward approx another 1" -1.5"

I've started working on my extended battery tray. Will post pictures soon.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 11:11 PM
This is my Nemesis....
ViperZ's Avatar
Canada, SK, Saskatoon
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_O_V8_R View Post
ViperZ

Thanks so much for the info. and testing.

I weighed mine with the battery tray installed, but without batteries.
It came in at 423 grams.

So mine is actually a little more tail heavy (1.3 oz.), yet you can get your to balance with the batteries not extending beyond the battery tray. Now I'm really confused.
No Idea Nov... What can I say,.... It balances well enough for me. Like I said, slightly downward (not level flat with a bubble level), but close enough I think.

Quote:
How did you mount the "power log" - looks sweet!
Since the PowerLog is only 6s rated, how do you get it to work on 8s.
I'll assume one battery, but do you need to take all readings times two?
The 6s means it can only monitor 6 channels/cells. It's input voltage range is 4.5 to 60 VDC, so it can take some big packs. It was not actually mounted in that picture, rather just set in place. When I run some flying sessions with it, I'll just strap it down to the Lipos or around there with some Velcro tape.


Quote:
Looking at your Graphics, which is pretty sweet BTW, I think you will find that the CG is actually inline with the the front of the cowl/raer of battery tray. This means all the battery weight would be forward of the CG point, or otherwise stated, the battery CG is #" forward of plane theor. CG.
Mine, with GC mark at 132mm from leading edge, is approximately 22mm ahead of the back of the battery tray.


Quote:
My plane will balance within the recommended range without batteries installed (approx. 5" CG). Theor. this means I need to mount my batteries sticking out 50% of there length, or 3.0". To get to 5.5" I need to push them rearward approx another 1" -1.5"

I've started working on my extended battery tray. Will post pictures soon.
Good luck with it!
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Bob Dunlop's Avatar
United States, VA, Fredericksburg
Joined Apr 2011
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I just put the batteries in it and flew it...it was a little tail heavy so next flight I moved them up about an inch and now it flies exactly the way I want.
My batteries are not hanging over any..in fact there is about an inch of tray behind the batteries. The initial setup was 5.25 but seemed a little tail heavy to me.
Bob
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Bob,
Wow, how there can be such a difference in planes - just baffles me!
Curious at what number your plane balances at without the batteries in it (but with tray & straps), because mine balanace almost perfectly without the batteries in it.
If I remeber correctly, you have that FANCY balancer
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_O_V8_R View Post
Bob,
Wow, how there can be such a difference in planes - just baffles me!
Curious at what number your plane balances at without the batteries in it (but with tray & straps), because mine balanace almost perfectly without the batteries in it.
If I remeber correctly, you have that FANCY balancer
I keep my plane at the field so I can't check it for you right now but the only thing that counts is when the batteries are in it.
Put the batteries in it..measure the cg right next to the fuse and if you are running the recommended setup it's gotta be close enough to fly and THEN move the batteries fore or aft after your flight to suit.
A little bit nose heavy is just fine for your maiden with this plane.

Are you by chance running an APC prop and that plastic spinner? cause when I switched to a Xoar and the H9 aluminum spinner I was able to move the batteries up about an inch or so.
Bob
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 10:02 PM
Fokker,I didn't even kiss her
Bob Dunlop's Avatar
United States, VA, Fredericksburg
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.P. View Post
But us electric guys can only achieve the very forward of the CG range with the recommended equipment, and our packs hanging off the rear of the battery tray...there is no way to go back (even within the range) without modification.

Why are there only a few companies where the gas/electrics kits actually work for electrics out of the box? It always seems like electric is an after thought in most cases, still requiring some modifications and problem solving.
Not true.. My plane balances perfectly with the recommended setup w/o any mods or having the batteries hang off the tray.
I put flight number 50 on mine today!
Thanks Hangar 9....awsome job!
Bob
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dunlop View Post
I keep my plane at the field so I can't check it for you right now but the only thing that counts is when the batteries are in it.
Put the batteries in it..measure the cg right next to the fuse and if you are running the recommended setup it's gotta be close enough to fly and THEN move the batteries fore or aft after your flight to suit.
A little bit nose heavy is just fine for your maiden with this plane.

Are you by chance running an APC prop and that plastic spinner? cause when I switched to a Xoar and the H9 aluminum spinner I was able to move the batteries up about an inch or so.
Bob
I agree with the "only thing that counts is when the batteries are in it" thing, but was just trying to get a comparison of balance as manufactured. There seem to be a large swing, as I don't seem to be the only one with the problem.

I really don't want to be an inch off from threor. balance point when I maiden this thing, but I agree, being nose heavy is better than tail heavy, for sure.

FYI - I'm running the Xoar and H9 spinner. Also the pair of 4000mah Nano's (35-70C) and a CC100 with capPack (same as you).

Wish I had 50 flight on mine, in fact, I would be happy with just one (successful) right now.
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 11:33 PM
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I would love for Castle to get some Ice 100's to my LHS so that I can see what it does in the air. Been on backorder for 2+ months now...
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