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Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
I have just gone through the set up process for the G31 on my KDS700V2.
First, a general question about mechanical binding or interference. I do not have anything hitting other parts ie: the swash does not bottom out on the frame or hit the head. There are situations such as full neg. collective with full cyclic deflection where the front servos will reach their limits while the back servo continues a little further (forward cyclic). Same thing with full aileron combined with full neg. or pos. pitch. One side will reach it's limit of movement before the other. These interactions are not seen at neutral collective.
Is this acceptable???
It's normal don't worry about it. In actual flight it won't do this. FBL gyros tend to act weird/get confused when they try to move the helicopter and it doesn't actually move.

Just set the servo travel to the maximum possible without mechanical binding and it will work. It needs as much servo travel as you can give it to compensate for 120 degree swashplate geometry so don't worry about keeping the elevator and aeliron endpoints even. Just set the servo travel limits as far as possible without binding.


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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
On the last page of set up you set up the cyclic ring. I don't know what to do with this. I have set it at 12 for now with a "round" ring. Suggestions???

Thanks
Kerry
Set it for round and it's the same thing as having a cyclic ring installed on your radio stick.

Check for binding in the head (e.g. swash follower links touching the swashplate arms) at midstick and min/max collective with maximum cyclic in all directions while turning the head and set the ring size as large as possible. I always back it up a bit lower just to be sure.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
It's normal don't worry about it. In actual flight it won't do this. FBL gyros tend to act weird/get confused when they try to move the helicopter and it doesn't actually move.

Just set the servo travel to the maximum possible without mechanical binding and it will work. It needs as much servo travel as you can give it to compensate for 120 degree swashplate geometry so don't worry about keeping the elevator and aeliron endpoints even. Just set the servo travel limits as far as possible without binding.

Thank you very much.

Set it for round and it's the same thing as having a cyclic ring installed on your radio stick. Never heard of this

Check for binding in the head (e.g. swash follower links touching the swashplate arms) at midstick and min/max collective with maximum cyclic in all directions while turning the head and set the ring size as large as possible. I always back it up a bit lower just to be sure.
Another thank you. Very helpful info. I will remove the blades and readjust the ring while doing your checks.

Kerry
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 12:50 PM
Team Mulikow 3D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
It's normal don't worry about it. In actual flight it won't do this. FBL gyros tend to act weird/get confused when they try to move the helicopter and it doesn't actually move.

Just set the servo travel to the maximum possible without mechanical binding and it will work. It needs as much servo travel as you can give it to compensate for 120 degree swashplate geometry so don't worry about keeping the elevator and aeliron endpoints even. Just set the servo travel limits as far as possible without binding.

Set it for round and it's the same thing as having a cyclic ring installed on your radio stick.

Check for binding in the head (e.g. swash follower links touching the swashplate arms) at midstick and min/max collective with maximum cyclic in all directions while turning the head and set the ring size as large as possible. I always back it up a bit lower just to be sure.
Pretty much the same conclusion that I came to - but I'm not an expert.

The heli's flat-ness (if that is a word) won't be affected by uneven travels - the G31 sorts that out. Unless you are doing some crazy flying it's unlikely that you would be on full neg or full positive and full cyclic at the same time. So long as you don't have any binding then (I think) you're good to go
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
Another thank you. Very helpful info. I will remove the blades and readjust the ring while doing your checks.

Kerry
No need to remove the blades just put the collective at high mid and low and move maximum cyclic in all directions while turning the head by hand and look for any binding.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:50 AM
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No need to remove the blades just put the collective at high mid and low and move maximum cyclic in all directions while turning the head by hand and look for any binding.
Done, thank you.

I removed the blades to make it easier to rotate the head. (I don't have to move it into the middle of the room to rotate that 5' span).
I increased the cyclic ring to max round and nuthin hits nuthin.

Next is performance.

First thing I notice is that the swash takes several seconds to return to level when the sticks are released. Is this normal? Doesn't seem like a good thing.

Also, it looks like the rear (elevator) servo is moving slightly more than the other 2, creating a slight tilt forward at max pos. coll. and a slight tilt back at max neg. coll. Did I get something wrong in the set up??

I have selected 3D on the performance screen but have not adjusted anything as I don't really understand it all yet. The tail response to stick input seems extreme.

Thanks
Kerry
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:11 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
First thing I notice is that the swash takes several seconds to return to level when the sticks are released. Is this normal? Doesn't seem like a good thing.
That's normal

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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
Also, it looks like the rear (elevator) servo is moving slightly more than the other 2, creating a slight tilt forward at max pos. coll. and a slight tilt back at max neg. coll. Did I get something wrong in the set up??
Again, normal - you can adjust the G31 so that the swash is flat at max and min, but not essential as a flat swash does not necessarily mean a flat heli - that is what the G31 does.

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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
I have selected 3D on the performance screen but have not adjusted anything as I don't really understand it all yet. The tail response to stick input seems extreme.
You can't read much into how the G31 wil behave in the air based upon behaviour on the bench.

3D is very agile - it might be be worhwhile flying it in Sports first
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:12 AM
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I finally stopped worrying about how the swash and head reacted on the bench today. Followed the advice provided here and in the help on the software. Just moved the high and low out to 112.5% in all directions, and found some spots where links would touch the swash. Backed off a bit so I could see light between the parts. Powered it up and it flew great.

One question I have is the 12% collective and 8% cyclic "suggestions" or does the G31 need to have those values in showing on the pitch gauge when I move the software sliders. I should not set it up for 10% and 6% for example to tame it down some, or bump it to 14 and 8 for example if the arms or other mechanical setup changes to allow this without binding.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
That's normal

Thank you.

Again, normal - you can adjust the G31 so that the swash is flat at max and min, but not essential as a flat swash does not necessarily mean a flat heli - that is what the G31 does.

Thank you.

You can't read much into how the G31 Will behave in the air based upon behaviour on the bench.

3D is very agile - it might be be worhwhile flying it in Sports first
Thank you, I will set to "sport" for initial flights
I assume "leave all sport settings at default" for a the start??

Thanks MikeHRC.

More Q?s
I will not be using remote gains on the swash. I think this means I adjust the pots on the G31?? To where for a start??

Also,do I use the TX (gear) to adjust tail gain as with my other heli's?

Thanks again.
Kerry
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:32 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
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Originally Posted by Blade Crasher View Post
One question I have is the 12% collective and 8% cyclic "suggestions" or does the G31 need to have those values in showing on the pitch gauge when I move the software sliders. I should not set it up for 10% and 6% for example to tame it down some, or bump it to 14 and 8 for example if the arms or other mechanical setup changes to allow this without binding.
The G31 wants to know where 12 degrees collective and 8 degrees cyclic is - not how many degrees of pitch you want. You are telling the G31 what you're geometry is like - think of it as calibrating your car's speedo at 60mph - it would know what the gearing is and could then work out when it was doing 20mph, 30mph etc.

You use the agility settings etc. to determine how it behaves in the air
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:35 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
[COLOR="Navy"]
I assume "leave all sport settings at default" for a the start??
Yep - they're a good starting point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
I will not be using remote gains on the swash. I think this means I adjust the pots on the G31?? To where for a start??

Also,do I use the TX (gear) to adjust tail gain as with my other heli's?
Just start at default (12 o'clock)

Yes - Tx gain does the tail gain still
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:46 AM
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Thanks yet again.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
Yep - they're a good starting point



Just start at default (12 o'clock)

Yes - Tx gain does the tail gain still
Another "thank you" sir. Great to have people around who know what they are doing.

Kerry
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:31 PM
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Done, thank you.

I removed the blades to make it easier to rotate the head. (I don't have to move it into the middle of the room to rotate that 5' span).
I increased the cyclic ring to max round and nuthin hits nuthin.
Make sure that the radius arms aren't touching anything with the cyclic put into the corners. I always make sure there is at least 0.5mm of clearance at all times.

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Originally Posted by Helitime View Post
Next is performance.

First thing I notice is that the swash takes several seconds to return to level when the sticks are released. Is this normal? Doesn't seem like a good thing.
This is normal, all FBL controllers do that. In flight a flybarred helicopter has a similar effect with the flybar taking time to react to control input changes.

If you want to speed this up increase the Stop setting. This will increase the reaction time of the swashplate returning to level but will also make the helicopter seem twitchier.

You can think of the Stop sertting as being the same as moving the flybar weights, and the EleAgility and AilAgility as being the same as the mixing arm ratio (amount of flybar input to servo input into the grips). Thinking of it this way will help you understand what these settings do. EleRate and AilRate is simply how many degrees per second the helicopter rolls in that direction with maximum cyclic.

Quote:
Also, it looks like the rear (elevator) servo is moving slightly more than the other 2, creating a slight tilt forward at max pos. coll. and a slight tilt back at max neg. coll. Did I get something wrong in the set up??
That's normal, you should only use setup mode to level the swash never flight mode because of the various forms of compensation it uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Crasher View Post

One question I have is the 12% collective and 8% cyclic "suggestions" or does the G31 need to have those values in showing on the pitch gauge when I move the software sliders. I should not set it up for 10% and 6% for example to tame it down some, or bump it to 14 and 8 for example if the arms or other mechanical setup changes to allow this without binding.
FBL controllers see cyclic stick input as "roll this many degrees per second" and then do whatever is necessary with the servos to make it roll at the commanded rate. Use the EleRate and AilRate settings to set how fast you want it to roll.
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Last edited by Atomic Skull; Feb 18, 2013 at 01:45 PM.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:49 PM
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Another "thank you" sir. Great to have people around who know what they are doing.

Kerry

I have my gains set very nearly to maximum, how high you can get them depends on the servos. (generally better performing servos = higher possible gains) I am able to set it all the way to max without causing any cyclic wobble but it leans slightly in piros so I backed it off slightly. You should set the gains as high as you can without it causing any negative effects.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 04:08 PM
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AS....how does it lean in a piro?...nose down? Think that's normal regardless of gain setting. That is one feature that I like most vs other gyros..locked in nose down piros..
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