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Old Feb 28, 2013, 09:37 PM
Greg Beshouri is offline
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Flip a.k.a. Kulbutin II (?)

I have looked at the Kulbutin many times. It looks really cool but I just never pressed "add to cart". Then I noticed yesterday that SUSA was offering a "Flip" (http://www.soaringusa.com/Flip-Sailplane-78.html) which looks a lot like an improved and better looking Kulbutin.

Both are made by Topmodel.cz. So I pressed "add to cart".

I hope to do a quick build thread here during Spring Break!
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:10 PM
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Cool to see a thread for this model, been looking at it for a few months myself. Seems like the Kulb fuse with a broader wing and lighter tail feathers... TBD how that all works out, but it's saving weight in the right places. Stab seems to be setup a bit better with joiner location further forward than previously (hopefully this makes it less flutter prone). Not sure I'm a fan of the wing shape, seems like it would be more snap-prone and not sure I think that's a good thing since AUW is higher than the Kulb per product description (although with more area due to the larger wing it may be a wash).

Overall wasn't enough to make me pull the trigger, but stoked to read here about yours

Steve
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:46 PM
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Always wanted a kulb but never took the plunge.
Check it out on Topmodel website and the kulb has ritz profile and HQ for the Flip.

LP
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 05:38 AM
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Glad to see there will be some feedback on this model!

Chris
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 08:19 AM
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I'd be interested to know which of the HQ foils it uses, those new-ish HQ/A (for Acro) series airfoils look very promising, similar to SB96V/VS when I loaded them in Profili.

Sorry if my initial reply came across as overly negative, having not seen one in the flesh let alone flown one I'm just shooting from the hip based on photos and product description. I hope it proves to be a really fun plane, after all, despite its deficiencies the Kulbutin has been around a long time now and most people seem to have had reasonable fun with it. Hopefully the Flip is an improvement in all regards.

Would really love to hear impressions of the fueslage (the Kulb gets dinged in most reviews I've read for having a weak fuselage) as well as details of the stab setup - joiner tube(s), pivots, etc.

Steve
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 09:42 AM
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I too look forward to a flying report.

The Kulbutin is an enigma. Lets hope the Flip is easier to "solve."

My take on the Kulbutin...

She looks cool... and has a nice heritage.

She is a very precise flyer... carves nice loops. Has an effective rudder... effortless point rolls.

She is not a lightweight, yet she is a very slow flyer (wing foil?).

She has a nice side area and as a result does a nice knife edge (point rolls); but due to the above, cannot carry the KE very long.

She "begs" to be flown close to the ground; but has a delicate fuse... very prone to breakage.

She is quick to stall and not so quick to recover.

And due to above... she does great stall maneuvers. She has a very crisp snap roll and nice precise flat spin.

I was never able to master flips with her. However I have patched "mine" up and hope to give it a go this year.

So good luck with the Flip. Maybe she is a Kulbutin done right!

Dawson
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 09:08 PM
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Eh,

I am really pleased by all the responses.

I was unaware of the Kulbutin elevator issue. But reading prior threads, I now understand it. I hope it is fixed on the Flip.

Yes, it is heavy, I presumed it was due to the electric motor option. But now noting the wing areas for both are the same but the weights are different... I am uncertain. Maybe the weight went into a stronger fuse!

If the weights are correct for the glider version it would be my heaviest sloper.

Ultimately you just gotta build it and toss it off a hill....and see how it flies.

But I really like the looks!

Greg
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 10:37 PM
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One definite improvement is that it finally has a pronouncable name.
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 10:43 PM
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Alright who is gonna buy one? I want to see a build and flight review!
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 11:07 PM
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I was just looking at this plane today and just checked the forum to see if there is a build for it and i came across this post. I am tempted. Hmmmmm

A flip or a wasabi?
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diceman89 View Post

A flip or a wasabi?
I have a Wasabi,......You get a Flip.
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Old Mar 02, 2013, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scamair View Post
Alright who is gonna buy one?
Greg Beshouri has !

It seems the Kulbutin was a real "Marmite" plane: some loved it, some hated it...

Chris
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Old Mar 02, 2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diceman89 View Post
A flip or a wasabi?
Two very different airplanes, pretty much the opposite ends of the aerobatic spectrum for sure!

The Kulbutin
The Kulbutin, and its "version 2", the Flip, are based on the Madslide by Benoit Paysant-Le Roux aka BPLR. The Madslide was the plane that introduced the exciting flip figures which Benoit called "Madflight" and were described as "3D aerobatics on the slope" (Benoit being an extremely talented 3D and F3A pilot at the highest international level).

The plan for the Madslide was published in an article written by BPLR for the Aug/Sept 2000 issue of Looping Magazine in France. Subsequent to that publication, at least three commercial versions of the Madslide were produced, but as far as I know, only one - the 1.7m Madslide by JR-Models - actually had involvement from Benoit. The other two models were the Kulbutin by Topmodelcz and the Slopemaster 3D by Protech.

Dawson did a great job of listing the strengths and weakness of the Kulbutin so I will defer to him on that. I own a Kulbutin but have not flown it yet.

The Wasabi
The Wasabi was created through the collaboration of Francois Lorrain, Jérôme Bobin and Thierry Platon and is intended for voltige totale, "total aerobatics", which means a plane that flies identically whether upright or inverted. The Wasabi was the first commercial glider to use the TP series of airfoils created by Thierry Platon and the design itself derives from the Minitoons version 2, which was the EPP testbed for the Wasabi design.

The Wasabi is relatively small - 1.5m - and very, very fast. It is the fastest pure aerobatics glider I've flown, very nearly as fast as a typical 1.5m slope racer. It is super precise and flies absolutely the same whether upright or inverted, thanks to its fully symmetrical airfoil. It is absolutely not meant as a VTPR or 3D -style aerobat, but rather much more as a precise machine capable of beautiful FAI sequences. It flies knife edge wonderfully and exhibits absolutely no bad habits. The only drawbacks in my opinion are a slightly thin fuselage, a relatively high weight, and its small size. But absolutely a fun plane!

Comparison
Both planes require a similar amount of lift - roughly 12mph+ - to really come alive on the slope, with the Wasabi being the hands-down winner for doing pure aerobatics sequences due to its speed and energy retention. The Kulbutin will get you the ability to do flips (if you set it up properly) and it sounds like it's a blast for knife edge flying. But it also seems like it has speed and energy retention issues. Having flown aerobats for so long, I don't care at all about speed, but energy retention is hugely important for creating flowing sequences.

Ultimately, you need to decide what it is you're looking for in your next aerobatics glider. If it's any help, I mainly fly my 1.5m Le Fish with Madslide-style stabilizer and my 2m Voltij from Aeromod. Both are durable, long-lasting planes that fly well and have me covered for about 95% of the typical flying conditions I face, from 6mph at the beach to 25mph+ in the mountains, and lets me enjoy Ultrabatics/VTPR/Madflight as well as practice traditional FAI-style sequences.

Steve
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Old Mar 02, 2013, 10:17 AM
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Hello Chris,

Yes I will do a build thread begining the end of the month.

Hello Steve,

Thanks for the background informaiotn. I really appreciate it.

Greg
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Old Mar 02, 2013, 11:17 AM
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Hi Greg - I hope the Flip turns out to be a great flyer for you - from the size & specs it should be good.

One thing though - if you want to do"flips" with it you will need to make up your own Mad-AMT linkages/pulley etc. - On the Topmodel website the ARC version shows a standard-type AMT - which will be fine for all normal aerobatics.
http://www.topmodelcz.cz/index.php?&...op=foto&id=599

Phil.
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