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Old Sep 15, 2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by eatkabab View Post
Awesome quick response! Thank you!

I've ordered from ReadyToFlyQuads before and while there is definitely absolutely ZERO support, their products seem to be good.

So as I understand their ReadytoFlyer 2.6 is a remake of the APM 2.6 although nobody can tell me if it's really 100% compatible right? But given the source, it'll at least probably be a quality board.

Coming from the Naze32 which I was really hoping to be good, I'm torn between APM and the Crius v2. Really all I'm looking for is excellent heading hold, good GPS/RTH and good alt hold. In addition, some good acrobatic ability is a huge plus but that's pretty easy for any board really. (Now I know the Naze32 is only currently good for acrobatics and basic functions. Any higher level ability just needs more development at this point).

What do you recommend oh wise one?
They are 100% compatible as they are not "remakes" as they are made using the exact same schematics as 3DR's APM

What do "I" recommend? None of them lol. Pixhawk baby [or any of it's clones]. Yes it's more cash but it is WAY more future proof than the old 8bit cpus on the old boards [including APM]
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Old Yesterday, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TheQuestor View Post
To me "value" trumps most everything. it can be cheap and a great value or it can be expensive and a great value, but rarely the cheapest or the most expensive thing are the greatest value. It tends to lay somewhere in between and that is the hard part to find
Definitely. However, "value" is hard to judge. Basically, wast majority of responses to question on "why X is better than Y" are pure speculation.
Nobody (which I saw) even tries to compare component characteristics. You mentioned "outdated sensors" - I honestly want to know what do you mean.
Schematics are virtually impossible to find

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheQuestor
What do "I" recommend? None of them lol. Pixhawk baby [or any of it's clones]. Yes it's more cash but it is WAY more future proof than the old 8bit cpus on the old boards [including APM]
Pixhawk is work-in-progress, both hardware and even more software.
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Old Yesterday, 09:38 AM
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Thanks guys! For now I'll head towards APM. In the future I'll definitely be moving to the Pixhawk as it seems to be the highest end FC there is.
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Old Yesterday, 11:44 AM
Fix it till its broke!
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Originally Posted by eatkabab View Post
Thanks guys! For now I'll head towards APM. In the future I'll definitely be moving to the Pixhawk as it seems to be the highest end FC there is.
Pix hawk is state of the art but from what I have read it's not as reliable as apm *yet* but give it a while for any bugs to get ironed out and by the time your bored of a normal apm it should be just as reliable.
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Old Yesterday, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by geofrancis View Post
Pix hawk is state of the art but from what I have read it's not as reliable as apm *yet* but give it a while for any bugs to get ironed out and by the time your bored of a normal apm it should be just as reliable.
There is no real "reliability" issues with the hawks. It runs the exact same software as the APMs and only really starts diverging with 3.2. The latest bom has worked out pretty much most of the hardware issues [and apm still has some if that is any indicator] so if you have a choice and the budget there is no reason to not buy a hawk over an apm.
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Old Yesterday, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheQuestor View Post
There is no real "reliability" issues with the hawks. It runs the exact same software as the APMs and only really starts diverging with 3.2. The latest bom has worked out pretty much most of the hardware issues [and apm still has some if that is any indicator] so if you have a choice and the budget there is no reason to not buy a hawk over an apm.
Pixhawk is quite advanced comparing to APM, but can you please stick to the facts? There's no need to put "reliability" in quotes, issues are real.
* Pixhawk have entirely different hardware, so at least HAL is completely replaced.
* Advertised by 3drobotics version feature "completely new autopilot functions such as Lua scripting of missions and flight behavior".
* Since hardware is conceptually quite different, some issues exists there as well.

So yes, if you have budget - go for it, but be advised by vastly increased complexity.
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Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Xlib17 View Post
Pixhawk is quite advanced comparing to APM, but can you please stick to the facts? There's no need to put "reliability" in quotes, issues are real.
* Pixhawk have entirely different hardware, so at least HAL is completely replaced.
* Advertised by 3drobotics version feature "completely new autopilot functions such as Lua scripting of missions and flight behavior".
* Since hardware is conceptually quite different, some issues exists there as well.

So yes, if you have budget - go for it, but be advised by vastly increased complexity.
Before I start I do want to point out that I said "so if you have a choice and the budget"

Which facts? The real ones or the ones you perceive.

You claim there are hardware issues. There is not. Was there? Yes but they have been addressed which is why everyone is selling the hardware based on the newest BOM. Even paul is selling 2.4.5 boards not the 2.4.3 or older.
Is it more advance? Of course it is else it would just be an APM no?
More features are NOT a downside.
Is it more complex? Umm no not really. Took me the same amount of time to set up my hawk as it does my APMs.
Does the APM utilize dual sensors [ie dual mags/dual baros] no
Does the APM utilize dual GPS units? no
The Hawks use newer and better mems technology as well as the ability to "fall back" to ones that are present on many APMs.

The "HAL" is the "least important" link in the software chain really as ALL software on the Hawk is "present" on the APM only since the APM is a 8 bit microcontroller it can't utilize any of the 16 bit or 32 bit keys or functions in APM:Pilot as the hawk has a 32bit microcontroller it can [else there would be no reason for the code to be there in the first place]

The APM is full. No more features. No more real advances are possible and all the devs who actually write APM:Pilot have moved on to the Hawk and beyond.

You really seem to love to contradict anything I as and I BET you don't even own one.

I appreciate fanboism as much as the next person [which is not a whole lot to be honest] but this need to argue is bordering on funny.

The only "issues" that may be using a Hawk over an APM is that some people are worried [falsely] that there are problems with it. There are no more problems with the hawks as there are for the APM and the only real end-user issue is cost. So I am guessing we are back to that wall again. It costs more so it must be bad. Sigh.
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Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TheQuestor View Post
You really seem to love to contradict anything I as and I BET you don't even own one.

I appreciate fanboism as much as the next person [which is not a whole lot to be honest] but this need to argue is bordering on funny.
I'm sorry if that's your impression, that's was unintended. I _do_ agree that hawk is/willbe advanced compared to apm. But, given sheer increase in complexity of both hardware (dual sensors, 2 cpus, etc) and software (multithreading, rtos, ...) I would be surprised if have no issues, especially on software side. That's OK, it's supposed to be that way, it's part of fun.

P.S.
I own crius v1 board, which I'll replace with hawk clone when price will go down a little - shipping ~$400 from US is out of my current budget.
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Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Xlib17 View Post
I'm sorry if that's your impression, that's was unintended. I _do_ agree that hawk is/willbe advanced compared to apm. But, given sheer increase in complexity of both hardware (dual sensors, 2 cpus, etc) and software (multithreading, rtos, ...) I would be surprised if have no issues, especially on software side. That's OK, it's supposed to be that way, it's part of fun.

P.S.
I own crius v1 board, which I'll replace with hawk clone when price will go down a little - shipping ~$400 from US is out of my current budget.
I may have over-reacted a tad and for that I am sorry.

But really the Hawk has been around for quite some time, long before it went to the consumers, so it is more mature than many think.

I would never consider buying a 400 dollar controller but you know you can get them FAR cheaper than that

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_module.html
150 bucks

http://www.rctimer.com/product-1166.html
150 bucks

Just to name a couple.

I can get the RTFHawk from China for more than 50 less than that [Around Paul's prices [witespy]] but I do not ship out of the US right now as there is just too much BS dealing with exports.

So there are alternatives and whilst 150 is still 3 times more than an APM it is 3 times the board with plenty of growth potential
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
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My point is that apm software and hardware has been out for years and Pixhawk is a new design and any new features will have bugs. Look at how many revisions of the apm there has been and also arducopter software.


There is nothing the px4 can do that the apm can't other than redundant sensors but i have never heard of a gyro or accelerometer failing in flight.
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Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by geofrancis View Post
My point is that apm software and hardware has been out for years and Pixhawk is a new design and any new features will have bugs. Look at how many revisions of the apm there has been and also arducopter software.


There is nothing the px4 can do that the apm can't other than redundant sensors but i have never heard of a gyro or accelerometer failing in flight.
"Today" there are few things the APM can do over the Hawk "today". The PX4/Pixhawk project started right after [and actually during] the APM project was released by the some organization that created the APM which means the hardware and software are quite mature for a "new" design.

Can there be problems? Sure. But "I" haven't run into any of them. I trust my hawk as much as I do my APMs and on my x8 I trust it WAY more than I did when I had an APM on it only because the APM can have serious scheduling issues on a X8 or octo.'

APM is EOL [End of Life] which means there are going to be no new features and most likely few bug fixes for it coming down the pipe.

All the cool upcoming stuff is for Pixhawk and beyond [Read Beaglebone and up]

Don't get me wrong I still like my APMs just fine and will not be upgrading either anytime soon as I just don't need to, They do exactly what I need exactly how I need it and are fine just as is. But if either fail I will not replace it with another APM [well except maybe on my small quad] as I do not like buying old tech when there is new and better tech available.

Do you go out and buy an "old" PC with Windows XP on it just because it is "more mature"? I know I don't. I would not even buy a "new" PC with XP on it as you really need the new software to utilize the new hardware and visa versa.

And to me the simple fact that it can use DUAL GPS modules is TOTALLY awesome and almost worth the upgrade just for that one feature.
Dual mags are less about redundancy as it is safety. If one is getting insane EMF and the other is not then it uses the data from the one that is not. Again AWESOME feature.

The Inertial Sensor code works much better on the Hawk, the use of the extended-kalman-filter on the hawks is really nice and so many other things it's just not possible to talk about them all without boring your pants off.

So really there are quite a FEW things that the Hawk can do that the APM can't and never will be able to do really.
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Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM
Oh No, not again!!!
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Originally Posted by TheQuestor View Post
I can get 2.5.2 boards for 39 bucks and 2.6 cost me 45 from the same vendor [and no this is not an ebay seller]. Makes no sense to pay MORE for a board with LESS on it
Would you PM me with where you are getting the boards for this price? I've searched all over and can't find them for that price other than unknown ebay vendors and I don't know which one of them to trust.
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Old Yesterday, 05:33 PM
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I didn't know the Hawks have redundancy. That alone is 100000% worth it! I always wondered how on earth these $15k + $10k camera rigs go up and nobody's worried about a lack of redundancy.

Even though you guys seem kinda tense, I really appreciate the discussion since I know its on the edge of the newest stuff.

For my project, I would love a Hawk but not willing to spend more than $110 for FC + GPS/mag.

I need heading hold, alt hold, loiter, RTH, gimbal pitch. That's it. Some decent horizon mode/acro would also be very nice. I'm considering the mini APM because its a phantom sized quad and I wanna save weight.

Telemetry option is just super cool but ultimately worthless for my needs. And honestly i'm not sure what people do with flight plans. I would however like to have it lock camera on a spot but again, extra. Lastly, follow me would also be super cool.

Will the 8bit APM mini do it for me?
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Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
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Would you PM me with where you are getting the boards for this price? I've searched all over and can't find them for that price other than unknown ebay vendors and I don't know which one of them to trust.
Please read your PM


Quote:
Originally Posted by eatkabab View Post
I didn't know the Hawks have redundancy. That alone is 100000% worth it! I always wondered how on earth these $15k + $10k camera rigs go up and nobody's worried about a lack of redundancy.

Even though you guys seem kinda tense, I really appreciate the discussion since I know its on the edge of the newest stuff.

For my project, I would love a Hawk but not willing to spend more than $110 for FC + GPS/mag.

I need heading hold, alt hold, loiter, RTH, gimbal pitch. That's it. Some decent horizon mode/acro would also be very nice. I'm considering the mini APM because its a phantom sized quad and I wanna save weight.

Telemetry option is just super cool but ultimately worthless for my needs. And honestly i'm not sure what people do with flight plans. I would however like to have it lock camera on a spot but again, extra. Lastly, follow me would also be super cool.

Will the 8bit APM mini do it for me?


I think your reading "tense" as passionate I have no ill feelings for anyone on the forums really and I do enjoy a good debate. Sometimes I do let my passion get ahead of me and take it personal and for that I apologize as I should not and try not to do so as it detracts from the "discussion" [Sorry Xlib17].
I will work hard on not letting that happen again. If I am wrong then I really hope that the person with whom I am debating can prove me so so that way I learn from it. Though I will admit I am strong headed and make them WORK to prove me wrong
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