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Old Oct 13, 2012, 12:20 AM
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5ch. RC Helicopters

OK correct me if Im wrong but wouldnt that be whats called a 4ch. CP ? Are 6ch. helicopters the same as 3D helicopters? If someone wanted to fly straight or around a field at hi speed but didnt want to do "3D" flying (loops, rolls, ect.) wouldnt they need a 4ch. CP?
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 12:28 AM
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United States, NE, Omaha
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With 4 channels you're looking at a fixed-pitch heli. A channel each for throttle, pitch, roll and yaw.

5 channels gets you into collective pitch, with a programmed pitch curve paired with the throttle stick.

6 channels allows you to control "something else", which is typically a tail gyro switching between rate mode and heading hold.

A 4-channel fixed-pitch heli would work fine for flying around a field like that.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 01:00 AM
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4ch don't handle wind very well, when the wind picks it up, the headspeed has to slow down to get the heli to come down. When the wind dies, the heli needs a couple of seconds to spin up and get enough thrust before it hits the ground.

6ch helis are able to maintain a high head speed so there's no spin up time and be able to vector plenty of thrust instantly. This allows even the micro helis to be able to fly in gusty winds.

6ch helis, especially in this hobby, are usually 3D capable. But technically, all it really means is that it can change pitch. Some helis have little or no negative pitch. They have six channels but are incapable of flying upside down.

It's typhoon season for much of the year over here, so i've had a lot of practice comparing the 4ch v911 and the 6ch GeniusCP under various winds.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 05:28 AM
Owner1
United States, WA, Seattle
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As others have said, the disadvantage of 4 channel FP is that you don't have negative pitch to fly your way back down, especially when the wind gets blowing. The advantage is that 4 channel FP (especially flybarless) is more durable in crashes and a lot simpler to put back together. I made the following video last week with my fixed pitch, FBL V200D01, demonstrating how fast it can go. The fastest passes are in the last minute of the video. It was only slightly breezy that day.

V200D01 with dsobbe mod flying faster than ever before (3 min 27 sec)


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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Owner1 View Post
As others have said, the disadvantage of 4 channel FP is that you don't have negative pitch to fly your way back down, especially when the wind gets blowing. The advantage is that 4 channel FP (especially flybarless) is more durable in crashes and a lot simpler to put back together. I made the following video last week with my fixed pitch, FBL V200D01, demonstrating how fast it can go. The fastest passes are in the last minute of the video. It was only slightly breezy that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Sd8sySCnI

Owner1
Good video I enjoy'd watching. The back rev of a FP helicopter when you drop the throttle acts kinda like a brake I think. Also why do so many people knock Walkera helicopters? They look like they fly great to me, and they come with nice transmitters.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 12:54 PM
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The knock on Walkera is:

They require upgrades; their brushed motors and servos are poor quality and they usually have other issues. I'll never understand why they don't start using brushless motors on all models. It would aid their reputation a lot for a small increase in price.

They churn models; odds are good whatever model you buy won't be current for long and could be hard to find parts for within a year. It's very hard to tell which models to buy.

Their past reputation haunts them; they have only recently started making helis that were reasonably durable and reliable. Their emphasis in the past was on "looking good" with lots of cheap, soft aluminum parts.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Dunno about servos, mine has held up pretty well, but walkera motors are simply horrible. I've had several already and the last one actually melted the airframe!

I already bought three motors just the other day. That's how unreliable their motors are.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
The knock on Walkera is:

They churn models; odds are good whatever model you buy won't be current for long and could be hard to find parts for within a year. It's very hard to tell which models to buy.
My Ufly isn't that old, and I cannot find anybody who has a driveshaft for the tail rotor. I haven't been able to get any dealers to confirm it yet, but it really looks like the Ufly has been "churned". As walkera gets into flybarless and collective pitch and 450 size, the price keeps going up. Why spend that much money on heli that will be disco'd in a few years?

Was out flying last weekend and the wind was just barely flyable. As long as I kept the ufly (fixed pitch) moving forward I could handle it, but trying to hover was very exciting to say the least.
A guy showed up with one of the itty bitty palm sized helis and asked if he could fly. Described hmself as a noobie - still working on basic tail in hover. I was kind of expecting the wind to grab the little thing and carry it a few blocks away. I gotta say I was amazed at how well it flew - very stable hover in the wind. It was a Blade flybarless CP - I think the newish CP X. His flying buddy took it up and did some pretty impressive 3D stuff, and it was till pretty breezy outside.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by karlik View Post
My Ufly isn't that old, and I cannot find anybody who has a driveshaft for the tail rotor. I haven't been able to get any dealers to confirm it yet, but it really looks like the Ufly has been "churned". As walkera gets into flybarless and collective pitch and 450 size, the price keeps going up. Why spend that much money on heli that will be disco'd in a few years?
Your best bet would be to ask vendors based in Hong Kong or China whether they could make an order from Walkera for you. I would suggest that you try HobbyOne first as they seem to have some connection with Walkera. This is what we do over here although it may take a few weeks.

The Ufly appears to be a dead-end model. However, it is often possible to upgrade an old Walkera model to a new one, or even from FP to CP e.g.

4#6, 4#6s, 4G6, 4G6s, V120D02, can all be converted in a V120D02S.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 05:30 AM
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if you really dont want a collective pitch heli (and there nothing saying you HAVE to fly 3D with it you can fly scale if you want) id go with the Multiplex Funcopter
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996072


full scale uses collective pitch just the same as the models and if you want to fly out side on any thing but a dead calm day cp is the only way to do it really
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post

The Ufly appears to be a dead-end model. However, it is often possible to upgrade an old Walkera model to a new one, or even from FP to CP e.g.

4#6, 4#6s, 4G6, 4G6s, V120D02, can all be converted in a V120D02S.
I appreciate what you're saying, and I know for some people that might be the answer.

But for me, I want a longer lifespan - they should at least continue to offer spare parts on old discontinued models. I've got a box of spare parts for the ufly, but if I can't get the part that fails the most often (the driveshaft) all the other spare parts are useless to me.

I wonder how long Toyota or Honda would last if you couldn't get parts for your 2 year old camry or civic and had to have it converted to a newer model?

Walkera used to get away with it 'cause they sold cheap stuff - my first walkera cost 99.99 including a 72 mhz radio. The new collective pitch flybarless stuff with a devo radio is much more expensive, and I don't think the 2 or 3 year lifespan will be acceptable anymore.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
full scale uses collective pitch just the same as the models and if you want to fly out side on any thing but a dead calm day cp is the only way to do it really
+1

Flying in any wind is much easier when you dont have to worry about your cylic authority being a function of your throttle setting (FBL can sort of compensate). Also FP helis have less cyclic authority to begin with.

If you want to setup a CP heli for low headspeed upright only flight, look into semmi-symmetrical blades (they are flat on the bottom). You wont find them for anything smaller than a 450 but they give a lot more lift at low headspeed. They will limit top speed though (basically a function of blade tip speed).

That said, I can turn my 450 (normal 3d blades) down to 2200RPM and pootle around for 12+mins. The lower HS will help with crash damage too. There is nothing that says CP helis need high HS.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 08:21 PM
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there is a down side to low head speed and that is the heli will be less stable
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