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Old Dec 21, 2009, 05:42 AM
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Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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The slope G&R needs an option for those who have no place to do it. We will have the G&R be "either" and then a non-G&R slope for those who want to do all slope but don't have a way to do G&R. Please give me some serious ideas and fast so we can get this done. Difficulty must be coparable to the G&R side.
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 08:14 AM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
Just read it myself. Thanks for stirring some more interest in the soaring community Ed. Good job.


As soon as I can locate Joe. He's been hiding again. He has one of those job thingies.
I have not received my copy yet, things are a little slow to my little town.
I think the new Bronze is pretty darn good Steve.
I am off to that job thingy now

Joe
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 08:12 AM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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Come on, no ideas? Fine, how about a 45 minute or 1 hour (A1) flight to offset the G&R? If I don't get some choices soon, I'll pick something. Oh and it won't be getting changed, you'll just have to live with it. So come on, pipe up.
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 08:24 AM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
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Love the option of a goal and return on a slope. Keep it. An endurance slope task is not the same. For those that don't have a large enough slope, then they would have to do it via thermal, like the old Bronze level said. That was what I was planning on doing until I see this.
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 10:53 AM
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Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
You could also add in a 10-15 minute slope flight requiring a non-hill site. A pic could be posted on here .

Highway overpass, side of large building, row of tree's, etc.


Ken
SSP #6
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 01:16 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
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Mother-in-law....
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 06:04 PM
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Walkerton, Indiana
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Love the option of a goal and return on a slope. Keep it. An endurance slope task is not the same. For those that don't have a large enough slope, then they would have to do it via thermal, like the old Bronze level said. That was what I was planning on doing until I see this.
That was my thought as well. However, it wouldn't allow for a total slope package. There will be some who won't be happy about that because they don't own a Thermal Duration model. This is always one of the big pain in the behind kind of things. Trying to make something that can work for everyone. I realize it wouldn't be the same as a G&R, it just needs to be something as difficult to achieve. Of course now I'm going to hear that a TD G&R isn't possible in "my area" can you make an option so I don't have to do that since the slope guys have an option to get around it. 1K really isn't that far. In fact you could fly it and never move. Just have a spotter go that distance and verify you flew that far. Maybe not as easy with slope but should still be do-able. If you have to scout for a new flying site so be it. Most TD guys have to find a suitable spot to do theirs as well. Just my 2cents worth.
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 07:46 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
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These shorter G+R should be possible on most slopes, may just have to go out away from the slope and then come back into the lift band. 3280 ft round trip is all

Maybe you would consider a path that had a couple of waypoints? Thinking just a couple of waypoints that get flown as part of the total distance. Would have to limit the number and maybe even have them send in the flight path.
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 11:53 PM
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Herndon, VA
Joined Sep 2005
38 Posts
Just a thought...an objective of a G&R is to cover distance. This can be done on a slope (of any size) by flying 'laps'. Determine the distance between two turn-around points on the slope and then do as many laps as required to cover the 1K. This method supports several program objectives: keeps the plane in slope lift and not thermal, rewards the flyer who finds/flies a larger slope (less laps), does not add a timed element (which is not in the G&R thermal task), and failure to complete the laps most likely does not result in a walk of shame, which is a strong possibility if an out and back...does not make it back.

I have been lurking on this thread for some time and I have not signed up for the program yet, so I understand if my suggestion is dismissed.

Scott (potential applicant once the weather becomes tolerable)
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Old Dec 23, 2009, 07:33 AM
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Walkerton, Indiana
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Originally Posted by Scott Allen View Post
Just a thought...an objective of a G&R is to cover distance. This can be done on a slope (of any size) by flying 'laps'. Determine the distance between two turn-around points on the slope and then do as many laps as required to cover the 1K. This method supports several program objectives: keeps the plane in slope lift and not thermal, rewards the flyer who finds/flies a larger slope (less laps), does not add a timed element (which is not in the G&R thermal task), and failure to complete the laps most likely does not result in a walk of shame, which is a strong possibility if an out and back...does not make it back.

I have been lurking on this thread for some time and I have not signed up for the program yet, so I understand if my suggestion is dismissed.

Scott (potential applicant once the weather becomes tolerable)
Welcome Scott. Everyone is welcome to join in here. Hope to see your application as well, whenever you're ready.
It could be the "swim of shame" if they fly on the coast. I thought about doing laps on a course. The difference would be that it really isn't the same as G&R or XC (cross country) in that the conditions are always known. When going XC or G&R the distance makes for changes in lift conditions that require you to be able to read signs in thermal duration. In slope I would think it would be less of an issue but there are a lot of requests to have it because it's quite popular in some areas around the world. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be the same, just as difficult to do. So laps on a course could work but maybe a time limit should be in place to add to the difficulty. Otherwise it just becomes a fliying for time task. Or it should have enough laps required that it becomes a large enough challenge on it's own. Maybe require 1/2 of the laps to be inverted. (just joking ) I'm no sloper so I'm at a disadvantage here. That's why I originally dropped slope. People have begged me to bring it back an now we're re-writing to allow it again. You can see how fast and how many suggestions we're getting to help us. I would have thought we would be flooded with ideas to help keep slope in the program. It drives me crazy. Thanks for your input. Always feel free to join in. In fact, please do as we need the help for slope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Spatz View Post
You could also add in a 10-15 minute slope flight requiring a non-hill site. A pic could be posted on here .

Highway overpass, side of large building, row of tree's, etc.
Now that could be cool! I wonder how many would try it. It's got me thinking about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post
These shorter G+R should be possible on most slopes, may just have to go out away from the slope and then come back into the lift band. 3280 ft round trip is all

Maybe you would consider a path that had a couple of waypoints? Thinking just a couple of waypoints that get flown as part of the total distance. Would have to limit the number and maybe even have them send in the flight path.
So like instead of laps, maybe a triangular course? That would put one leg along the slope to gain altitude and one going out from the slope and one coming back coming up the slope? Could make it interesting if the legs are sized right. Almost sounds like a DS circuit. Which could be used as well. So many DS circuits in an specified time.
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Old Dec 23, 2009, 08:42 AM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,186 Posts
Laps is no different than normal slope flying. Don't want to make it that easy. In the course of a normal day of slope flying I probably cover miles of ground. But that is because I fly fast and far Probably put miles on retrieving models during combat too.

A 3 point course should be more than enough to get the distances in. Would avoid too many more points as it could be tailored to look like just doing laps. And if that 3rd point is out away from the slope, the person may have to hook a thermal to get back. Have had to do that more than I can remember when the lift leaves the hill to avoid parking a sailplane somewhere littered with rocks.

F3F is 10 passes on a 100m course, low time wins. Even on a marginal slope times under a minute are possible to cover the 1km. World record is i think 27.xx seconds. Just a reference if you consider adding # laps in a certain amount of time. I would actually like to see this in the slope program as a normal task as it will encourage people to get out and fly F3F!!! I really like F3F.

Definately not a DS circuit. And I would not add a DS option. That is every bit, if not more limiting than the G+R task due to less slopes available for DS.

By the way, a slope based G+R should probably be longer than a thermal based G+R because the lift for the slope would be much more consistent and easier to read. If someone doesn't have a long enough slope near them, sounds like a perfect excuse for a road trip to visit some of the sailplane community. I know a whole gang of people from New York come out to Kansas for the Midwest slope challenge. And it would give me an excuse to go to New Zealand or Australia to do some slope flying, in case I needed an excuse.
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Old Dec 23, 2009, 09:04 AM
Turn down for what?
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
14,656 Posts
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Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
You can see how fast and how many suggestions we're getting to help us. I would have thought we would be flooded with ideas to help keep slope in the program. It drives me crazy. Thanks for your input. Always feel free to join in. In fact, please do as we need the help for slope.
I would love to make suggestions but I have probalby only sloped 30 times in my life. I do like the thermal side of the program though and am enjoying working on Copper. So far on Copper I have:

One of the landings.
Both 5 minute flights (non landing ones) - recorded on my Basic 2 Altimeter
One of the 30 minute flights with a 3 meter landing

It has been fun and good practice.

Ryan
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 11:50 PM
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Mapleton, Australia
Joined May 2003
21 Posts
Greetings,
At last I have completed the Slope Copper level and been awarded Membership #10. Just missed the single numbers. In fact I finished it in October but did not read the rules so some reflights were needed. (When all else fails read the rules) What with holidays, etc. interfereing I have just recompleted it now.All the tasks were completed using a WOWINGS Duck combat wing which is an Australian design. This model shown on the right in my Avtar is already +2years old and the survivor of many combat encounters and is still capable of staying up with mouldies and others.
Congratulations to Steve for all the effort he has put in to this program and I am sure that after all the hicoughs he has put up with it will come through in the end
Best wishes to all for 2010
Charles
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 07:06 AM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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First off, I hope everyone had a wonderful and safe holiday season. The wife and I have mostly taken it easy. I've been playing a lot of modern warfare 2 on X-Box 360 and generally taking it easy. I know, but I have to take out my frustrations somewhere.
The program is stalled and it's killing me. We have to come up with a solution for the last slope task to use if XC isn't possible. Then we can move on to finish Silver level. This is a high priority as we have members waiting to work on Bronze and we have put a stop on them until we resolve this. So come on people, put on your thinking caps and help us out. My hopes of finishing this by the end of the year are looking slim. If we could solve this we could still pull it off though.
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 08:25 AM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,186 Posts
Whats wrong with the suggestions so far? Was thinking no news was good news.
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