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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:04 PM
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You sabotaged my plane.
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Are we losing the ability to tinker in the shop?

I'm post this here as I browse here often … I was reading a post and a gentleman was complaining about a few things on the model he was building. One thing that really caught my eye was he was complaining that there were no instructions on how to mount an outrunner on a stick fuselage. He had claimed to be modeling for 50 years. My question is, are we a society come to expect everything to be spelled out for us? What has happened to the idea of tinkering in the workshop, solving whatever issues you have and creating a model that is our own? I'm not just talking about building from a plan or a kit but there are times that would hold true for an ARF as well. Say putting on a different motor than what is recommended. It seems like everything I read someone expects the manufacturers to solve all the issues. Does anyone roll up their sleeves and figure thing out on their own anymore? Yes, there are bad designs out there, but do we need a manufacturer to tell us how to install a servo? If someone doesn't know how to install a servo, maybe they shouldn't be flying. If a person driving a car doesn't know what to do if the oil light comes on, maybe they shouldn't be driving.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:13 PM
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I often hear/read that we modelers (old ones) miss RCM. Well I've been at this hobby since 1957 and yes I miss RCM also - because in it were a lot of "How-to's" where we 'tinkered' in the garage, basement or where ever to create a solution to a problem we were having. Many of us shared those via the printed page (RCM, Flying Models, etc). Today is another story - yes we are accumulating a lot of modelers who only assemble and fly and when something amiss rises, don't have a clue what to do! Sadly, that is the trend and it continues to grow. Just my $.02 worth.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:39 PM
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It would seem that there are those who have lost the ability to figure things out on their own. Good thing this didn't happen to Orville or Wilbur, otherwise we wouldn't have a hobby.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:58 PM
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Reduce the drama...
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I think ARF and RTF popularity are symptomatic of a more
widespread societal dis-ease.
If it's not comprehended or understood in a short time, it must be worthless.
Is the whole world going ADHD?
My kids for example, decided that what I wanted to share was unimportant.
Maybe the attitude came from their public schooling.
Or, they picked up on their mother's attitude.
I asked them, and they are absolutely certain in their opinions.
The downstream consequences resemble a decade-long train wreck.
No they don't appreciate "idiot warning lights" , or defensive driving lessons.
Feels like I'm in a twilight zone feature.

The younger folks at work decided that if they change a pack or replace a fuse,
then they must be electronics technicians. Anything more involved, escalate the problem to engineering.

The one-minute-manager. Self-esteem over respect. Hubris trumps humility.

Now that I've been forced to retire, I watch the wreck happening on a grander scale.

Well, that's my take on the state of whatever.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:56 AM
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Well, on balance peeps, just don't want to think any longer. Let the elected leadership do it for us. And of course in the end, we have no one to blame for the outcome other than ourselves.

It is aggravating and very challenging to work things out with no instructions. But consider the upside of what the Chinese have taught us. Pride and accomplishment of building something nice and the hours of admiration to enjoy it.

After all, they have copied everything we invented to begin with.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 04:28 AM
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There have been tests conducted to try and determine how the current technical environment affects the young when it comes down to focus and concentration. A screen of blocks ,half red and half blue is flashed on screen for an instant, then the person being tested must determine if the blue blocks have changed position or orientation. More blocks are flashed as the test goes on to get more complex.
The result : The teenagers did not come anywhere near the ability of a typical 40 year old. In this day and age of instant gratification and mass information, young people are losing cognitive abilities. They can't focus on anything for very long.
Nova science now - What will the future be like (51 min 24 sec)

Starts at 32:50

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/a...dy-082409.html
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:08 AM
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The age of 'open-the-box-and-switch-it-on' is with us.

I can quite easily imagine long term modelers who have always built from someone else's plans/instructions struggling to think of alternative methods.

Many of the new threads appearing in the Begginers forum, (and others), make me do a Simpson's, Doh!. Have they no clue at all how a plane flies or how it is controlled ?

Even back in school in the 50's we had a model aircraft group, even allowed to build models during a Craft period. It could be the 'Heath and Safety' regulations these days that stops kids learning how to use there hands to make things. No knives, no pins, nothing sharp, no glue except paper glue........, can't have parents suing the school to cuts or glue on clothing

It's not just modelling though. Are you old enough to remember working on a car engine, the carb, the ignition ?. Open a hood now and it's,....."what the hell's all that stuff..".
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:24 AM
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The car things a good example of how much more complex life is.In my youth I had mk2 Cortina,used to think nothing of taking the engine out,reseating valves etc etc.All the normal guy can do now is check fluid levels and other very basic stuff.Have you seen Wal-E- bit extreme but that's where we're headed.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 07:12 AM
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Had to split the engine/gearbox to adjust the clutch springs part way through the drive to a holiday destination many years ago.

Don't you just lurv the modern "I've just designed - - - - , How do I - - - - "

Regards Ian
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
Had to split the engine/gearbox to adjust the clutch springs part way through the drive to a holiday destination many years ago.

Don't you just lurv the modern "I've just designed - - - - , How do I - - - - "

Regards Ian
I must say I envy the guys who can run up a design using Rhino or similar.That kind of approach is good,if you also have the skills to build what you have come up with.It can save a lot of time and expense,in comparison to doing a design in your head,sketching it out,drawing a plan and then continually adjusting and modifying as you go.(I may have just defined scratch building)
That's the part I enjoy,encountering a problem,sitting with a cup of something and thinking about it(I do a LOT of that) and eventually the light comes on and the solution is there.Very satisfying.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:43 AM
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Must confess to watching the British made 'Wheeler Dealers' on the haunted fishtank and thinking 'I used to fix things on cars pretty much like that'.

Then, around 40-ish, the attraction of laying under a car with hot engine oil running down my arms as I fought with the filter holder somewhat diminished... Now, as Ray says above, I open the bonnethood of my Prius and am fairly sure there's an engine of some sort somewhere in there. Fortunately, I can still check my oil and fluid levels and tyre pressures. I suspect some of the herbs who live around us wouldn't know what engine oil is, let alone how to check it.

Suspect the smart phone wave that's swept the world could have a large part in this business. I mean, who's got time to do anything meaningful when your day is so packed with phoning, texting, twitting and sometimes breaking out and emailing?

Stupot - I drew model plans up by hand for years before getting into CAD - 2D only, I can 'see' from a regular plan what it'll look like so have not bothered to buy into 3D. CAD plans absorb way more time than hand-drawn, believe me. Once, I figured out where to draw a line on a plan, drew it right first time and left it.

Now, I put it into my CAD file, mess around with it, move it a tiny bit, move it back again, change its thickness, alter a nearby curve to match it, then smooth the curve with point reduction.... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

The truly depressing part around here is not so much the 'I bought a big shiny box because I was told to - now, how do I get the shrink wrap off?' business as that one day, that person could become a lawyer and hence the Prez - sorry, President - of the US.

D
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupot46 View Post
I must say I envy the guys who can run up a design using Rhino or similar.That kind of approach is good,if you also have the skills to build what you have come up with.It can save a lot of time and expense,in comparison to doing a design in your head,sketching it out,drawing a plan and then continually adjusting and modifying as you go.(I may have just defined scratch building)
That's the part I enjoy,encountering a problem,sitting with a cup of something and thinking about it(I do a LOT of that) and eventually the light comes on and the solution is there.Very satisfying.

I agree with Stupot46. The word that comes to mind is Ingenuity
Ingenuity is, the quality of being clever, original, and inventive, often in the process of applying ideas to solve problems or meet challenges

It seems most of the younger generation lacks this trate!
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 10:21 AM
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I've turned wrenches and built things most of my life, and consider myself above average when it comes to "making things work". I have to admit, I find it "too convenient" to just hop on the interweb and go to a place like RCG and ask a question and expect an answer from somebody else that knows. I could research the question but that would take more time and effort I need to stop taking the easy path and do more of my own research first, then ask for advice. Actually the time excuse is pretty lame, as I could find the answer in the time it takes for somebody else find my post and answer the question.

I guess I'm falling victim to the same thing the "young" guys are

Ken
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 11:52 AM
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As in many past-times/hobbies, and even employment and general workforce, people have been programmed, and the ability to keep learning is stunted.

Look at every day cash registers.. change is totally calculated, and the cashier just counts it out to you(at least most of the time, thats another story though).. but those of us that worked at jobs know that its just a matter of knowing number combonations from 1-100.. or even 1-10. Thats it.. yet 99% of cashiers know nothing about how to make change.. just throw them a few more coins so you get even money back, and it just throws them off.. and they're the ones with the machine... go figure that.

Its also about "learning how to learn".. and having that drive to continually perpetuate self-learning.. alot of that's gone for some reason from our society. I'm fortunate, I love to learn.

I strive to know more, and be better in most cases... but thats a blessing and a curse, as those that just want a problem solved without giving any thought to it are drawn somehow to those that "just get it". I'm all for helping.. don't get me wrong.. I prefer to teach someone to do it themselves, rather than do it for them.. and if they don't like that.. well..they learn something anyway... it becomes a different lesson... which unfortunately can be tougher then initial problem.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:14 PM
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That cashier thing happens to me all the time!The other day- price £6.35.I only had £20 notes so gave the girl £21.35-blank expression! In the end I had to explain to get my £10&£5 notes in change.Go figure.
If I have a Q first place is google,which oft times leads you back here or one of the other rc sites.Then pick the appropriate forum,thread search,post search.If you need to post,reference where you've been/ searched.
Personally I think these forums are the bees knees.Before I got on line trying to find info meant ploughing through piles of mags for an article you were sure was in ONE of them,or did you ever try libraries? That was fun-most of the books were aimed at morons or aviation professionals.
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