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Old Apr 05, 2014, 02:48 PM
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┼tvidaberg, Sweden
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Why is there different stick modes?

I have many times thought about why there is a need for mode 1, men mode 3 or mode 4?
What is the logic about using thoose? All real planes have aileron and elevator in the same stick.
It would be interesting from a historical perspective why it is the way it is.

Have a nice day!
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 03:04 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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(The much-condensed version, many details omitted

The first model airplane radios were single channel push-button operated.

As channels were added, so were pairs of pushbuttons added (probably also why Graupner has double the channel numbers vs. the rest).

The push buttons were on opposite sides of the box.

When they moved to analog inputs, people were already accustomed to two controls on opposite hands. This is where Mode 1 comes from.

Nowadays, those who prefer Mode 1 say it makes them better pilots because the ailerons and elevators are on opposite hands, helping to keep them separated so there is no accidental movement on one axis vs. the other. This is the same sort of argument that tray users make - it makes them a better pilot. Likewise for pinchers vs. thumbers.

In reality, though, you'll find there are top pilots with any mix of Mode 1/2/3/4, tray vs. handheld vs. neckstrap, and pinch vs. thumb.

I just think it's all a matter of personal preference and what you get used to.

Andy
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 03:55 PM
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richard hanson's Avatar
United States, UT, Salt Lake City
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Probably- this question has had more discussion on like and magazine posts , than any other -
the Mode 1 had pushbuttons then momentary toggle switches which worked fine - as the models were basically free flights with big trim tabs
Mode 2- logical progression as a gimble duplicated the stick mounted to the floor of early aircraft.the rudder and throttle -being seldom used functions - were stuck on the other stick.
Some fliers still grasp the box with one hand and stir the aileron/ elev with the other .
works for them as rudder is for steering on the ground----
next step - how to get more precise inputs - rapid improvements as models and electronics quickly evolved
The European approach was a platform which was stabilized and the operator could move either hand freely
not a bad approach and the layout gave an interval of about 3" from hand rest to top of stick - this meant fairly large hand movements could be used without making the inputs large (an exponential function). good for cub bears wearing boxing gloves
This setup was and is awkward -for some- why?
amount of stick movement became an issue - they wanted faster inputs over smaller movements .
Grasping a box , puts the workable stick length at 1" up to 2.5"--for thumb n forefinger and thumb only at the lower end of that scale .
The adoption of expo to remove tremors and smooth things worked now, as the electronics could provide accuracy even inputting very large expo curves .
good accurate aerobatic control was possible with less than a inch of lateral motion.
Mode 3 seldom seen- mode 4 ditto as they are mirror images of 1 and 2.
I have also seen up as down stick inputs .
next up: - piezo controls like some fighter pilots use is possible
also the finger slid around as some computer pads use
could work--- remember the roller mouse?
Likely mode 2 will remain most popular .
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 04:46 PM
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┼tvidaberg, Sweden
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Wow, that was some really good answers.
It seems from this that mode 1 is something that might dissapear in time when oldies don't fly any more since it was the oldest implementation.
Still, why did they feel the need to make mode 3 and 4? It's almost like they made thoose just becouse they could and not by demand.
Thanks for the explenation!

Regards
Johan
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 04:54 PM
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Some years ago had a full-scale pilot who wanted to get into RC models ask about Mode 4 (or is it Mode 3?) transmitter. His explanation was that he is used to fly with the left hand on the yoke and right hand on the throttle.

i.
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 04:55 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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Perhaps because they could, or because some people are left-handed. It took my lefty son a lot of practice to get used to primary controls on the right hand. He'd probably have been much quicker with a Mode 3, but we had 1 radio (mine). But I suppose that comes back around to what feels natural for somebody.

I also know a guy who lost his right hand, so he flies Mode 3 out of necessity.

Andy
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 04:59 PM
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Staffs, UK
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Since most of Europe and Australia fly Mode 1 I'm not sure it's going to disappear any time soon. Plus many people are certain that they can fly more accurately with aileron and elevator on different sticks so they don't interfere with one another.

Mode 3 and 4 are basically left-handed versions of the other two. And there are a lot of left-handed people .

Steve
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 05:24 PM
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United States, UT, Salt Lake City
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I can fly mode 2 or 4- because all that is different is rudder and aileron and I use one input as much as the other
some of my models -especially indoor aerobatic type - do most of the turning using rudder NOT aileron
The lateral areas of these types is so large -that no banking is required for turns .
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 05:53 PM
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Daedalus66's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
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I regularly fly both mode 1 and mode 2. Mode 1 is my preference, not only because I go back to the earliest days of proportional control in the mid-60s, but also because I find it easier to fly maneuvers like rolls with one hand controlling ailerons and the other feeding in the necessary elevator -- it makes avoiding interaction easier.

I fly mode 2 because it is the prevalent mode and I'm an instructor with our club. Very few people except some aerobatic competitors fly anything other than mode 2 in our part of the world. I also prefer training on mode 2 because I can hold the trainer switch on the master transmitter with my left hand while "flying" with the student using the right stick. I simply can't help wanting to fly along, but it's impossible to do on mode 1.

My simple advice on choosing a mode is to go with the local trend. Not only does it make getting help easy, but it avoids having to special order equipment (even though most advanced transmitters can now be easily switched among the four modes, the less expensive ones generally can't). Avoid mode 3 and mode 4 unless you have special physical needs. Ignore all advice that says a particular mode is more intuitive or more realistic -- it's simply wrong.

By the way, it wasn't very hard to learn mode 2 after flying mode 1 for several years. I simply reverted to a tame trainer and flew it for a couple of weeks. Doing aerobatics with mode 2 took a little longer.

Finally, the other mode is single stick, which has a rudder knob on the end of the stick and throttle on the side of the transmitter. You cradle the transmitter with the left arm and fly with the right hand. I had one at one time and loved it.
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 07:16 PM
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It's amazing how adaptable we become -IF we really want to adapt.
Old story:
A songwriter had trouble playing piano in different key signatures .
He had his piano rigged up so the keyboard would shift left/right to strike next string arrangements
Irving Berlin - couldn't adapt but could really write!
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 11:18 PM
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Andy has got it right in post #2. However, forget any 'full size' remarks. I do both and there is no connection. Most modellers dont' fly both so it is irrelevant anyway.

The REAL reason we have modes other than mode 1 is that it was the first when two stick transmitters came along (prior to that the rudder was a knob on top of the stick) and we were all perfectly happy with what later became mode 1, though we didn't have 'modes' at all. Richards post confuses the issue. His "The mode 1 had toggles and buttons" is plain wrong. Modes had not been thought of. If he had said "The previous radios had toggles and buttons " then I agree. but his 'European' issues just muddies the waters. 'Tray' radios are unpopular and don't affect the mode issue anyway. Europeans just bought US radios and later made similar ones themselves. 'Trays' are a much later idea, mainly because Grundig and Metz (yes, the tape recorder manufacturer and the camera flash manufacturer) wanted to make their radios look different. Everyone worldwide used what later became known as mode 1. The US had the first proportional radios (Europe just went along with the US, other than the two I mentioned above they didn't do it any different and theirs were an unchangeable 'mode 1' anyway) and the Americans put the also unchangeable throttle/ailerons on the right and the rudder/elevator on the left as it had a vague resemblance to the 'toggle and button' radios they used before.

Then some fool came along and did it a different way for no good reason whatsoever.

So the muddle we have today arrived. A bad day. Sometimes people say "It is best to use the mode your group uses". Sometimes one instructor flies one mode, the next time you go the only instructor there flies flies a different one so you are stuck. . Sometimes it is hard to alter the transmitter modes. Nor would we have 'local trends' as a poster said. It all resulted in a mess with no advantage.

None of that fool stuff would have happened except for some idiot who didn't want to do it the way everyone else did. (Probably had some head on collisions in his car too.)

PROOF. They don't change the ailerons and rudder around on a real plane. Nor do they swap the brake and accelerator on your car. So don't even try and disagree with what I say. That they do change things for disabled people is a side issue. Nothing prevents us from doing that. The rest of us don't ever need to.

ivanc's comment just shows what I mean about 'no connection'. His full size pilot friend had simply not at the time found out that the two are not connected whichever way you come from.

Pukin_Dog. 'Oldies' drove cars. They have not changed them around because 'newbies' want it different, have they? Anyway, the original way is still very popular, maybe more popular, in places outside the US and will probably remain so. Also, of course, Newbies are taught by oldies. The oldie instructing the newbie chose his mode, be it 1 or 2, before the newbie turned up.

What mode do I fly? Either 1 or 2. Don't care. Someone lets me fly his plane I wiggle the sticks to see how it works and then take off. Haven't crashed anyone else's plane yet. Wouldn't like to have to do it on a car though. Might bend a new one I just bought in a few seconds. So why do we make life harder than it need be?
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 11:59 PM
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┼tvidaberg, Sweden
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I'm not convinced that "most of Europe" use mode 1 though. I have never heard about anyone using any other mode than 2 here in Sweden. I'm pretty sure no one in Scandinavia use anything other either. It's not even something people talks about like it seems to be in other places.
I'm glad that they made mode 2 since it seems the most logical for me when I think about it. Full size have it in one stick so why not adopt that.
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 12:07 AM
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I started flying in MODE 4
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukin_Dog View Post
I'm not convinced that "most of Europe" use mode 1 though. I have never heard about anyone using any other mode than 2 here in Sweden. I'm pretty sure no one in Scandinavia use anything other either. It's not even something people talks about like it seems to be in other places.
I'm glad that they made mode 2 since it seems the most logical for me when I think about it. Full size have it in one stick so why not adopt that.
Here you go. As many people who only fly one or the other.

There is no connection. I have been flying both for more than 40 years. On real ones you work the rudder with your feet and the throttle is not on the stick. The rudder works backwards compared to a car or a bicycle.

Who said 'most of Europe'? Not me. It is about 50 50 at the field I mainly fly.

Having two modes is totally illogical anyway so 'more logical' is like "Is it better to be mad or crazy?"
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 12:53 AM
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Heli pilots often fly mode 2 or 3, because the swashplate is on one stick. If they are coming from planes they fly mode 1. Just because they are used to. I often thought it would be a good idea to fly heli mode 2 and planes mode 4 (to have better control while torquing). But I am so used to mode 2 that I exclusively fly mode 2, also planes
There are also some tricks with different modes, just a couple of days ago I saw a heli pilot doing tic-tocs with one handed. This only works with mode 1.

Funny, I just wrote a tut to have both modes on Spek radios yesterday: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2140476
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