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Old Oct 13, 2012, 06:43 PM
inverted-i-fly
3drcparts's Avatar
United States, CA, Petaluma
Joined Mar 2011
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rudder to ailerons and rudder to elevator is what I have
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 07:28 PM
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7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
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I haven't used mixes before, but I think I understand them thanks to the Andrew Jeskey video from higher plane productions, and that they are more necessary on bipes from RCG, but I was wondering if you turn them off for 3D, or if they still work.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 07:52 PM
inverted-i-fly
3drcparts's Avatar
United States, CA, Petaluma
Joined Mar 2011
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just think about this, if you need them for KE flight you need them for rollers and everything else, just part of the trim process in my mind
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 08:08 PM
Team 3DHS / Team JR
Bivens's Avatar
United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Apr 2010
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All depends on the pilot of course. Like all planes...some fly KE with adjustments in their own mind...

I mixed mine. To get it tracking straight in KE with only rudder, you'll need some Rud-Elev and Rud-ail mix. Nothing too complex. It's the straightest Bipe I've ever flown.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 08:34 PM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
I haven't used mixes before, but I think I understand them thanks to the Andrew Jeskey video from higher plane productions, and that they are more necessary on bipes from RCG, but I was wondering if you turn them off for 3D, or if they still work.
Mixes: they're a trim step in making a plane fly accurately. we don't want the plane rolling or yawing if we pull or push on the elevator, similarly we don't want pitching or yawing when we put in a roll input... so by the same logic we don't want the plane pitching or rolling with a yaw input

so, mix as needed, leave the mixes on all the time... it's just part of trimming a plane to fly to the inputs that you input, and nothing else.

coupling effects every maneuver with yaw input, it's just that it's most obvious when flying knife edge.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 09:02 PM
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7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theKM View Post
Mixes: they're a trim step in making a plane fly accurately. we don't want the plane rolling or yawing if we pull or push on the elevator, similarly we don't want pitching or yawing when we put in a roll input... so by the same logic we don't want the plane pitching or rolling with a yaw input

so, mix as needed, leave the mixes on all the time... it's just part of trimming a plane to fly to the inputs that you input, and nothing else.

coupling effects every maneuver with yaw input, it's just that it's most obvious when flying knife edge.
Thanks.

Just to be clear, so the mixes set up on a KE will continue to work in a high beta KE? Or do you need to get fancy for high alpha/beta, and have mix regions where the perecentage changes based on deflection?

Also, are the mixes airspeed dependant--guess not or you'd need a pitot tube with telemetry.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 09:10 PM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
pmackenzie's Avatar
Toronto (Don Mills), Canada
Joined Dec 2002
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You might need a mix with a curve to get the optimum performance at all throws.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:09 PM
Team 3DHS / Team JR
Bivens's Avatar
United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Thanks.

Just to be clear, so the mixes set up on a KE will continue to work in a high beta KE? Or do you need to get fancy for high alpha/beta, and have mix regions where the perecentage changes based on deflection?

Also, are the mixes airspeed dependant--guess not or you'd need a pitot tube with telemetry.
A well-done curved mix puts the proper corrections in for pitch and roll at all rudder angles...will take some time to get right for you..but once it's done, it will "feel" great at all angles of KE....slow speed KE takes more rudder, but you have the right mix there.....high speed takes little rudder...but you have the right mixes there too. A proper "curve" typically takes a while to get right because you are flying several passes at different speeds (with different rudder deflections)...take the time to work on it, and the plane will track very well with minimal corrections needed......

You'll know you are getting very close when you will be able to start off with a high speed KE approach with little rudder input and lower the throttle as you add rudder...slowing down but maintaining altitude with more rudder....transitioning into slow HAKE. When your mixes are right, this is very easy to fly.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 01:25 AM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Thanks.

Just to be clear, so the mixes set up on a KE will continue to work in a high beta KE? Or do you need to get fancy for high alpha/beta, and have mix regions where the perecentage changes based on deflection?

Also, are the mixes airspeed dependant--guess not or you'd need a pitot tube with telemetry.
...a good aerobatic plane usually just needs the one mix value, or a "linear" mix... should work for all speeds and all angles. Will always have to correct for things out of your control like wind, but a nicely setup plane will go the speed range without needing much correction. A really good test is to fly a knife edge loop: a nice round KE loop will have you at full throw with high beta angle at the bottom, easing off across the top and putting full throw back into high beta through the bottom... if the plane is pitching or rolling out as you ease off and on the input, either the mixing is a smidge off, or it needs a curve mix. Curve mixes are a hassle, but happily I have not owned a 3DHS plane that needed it

The way that I like to test the KE mixes is at a healthy pace, 3/4 throttle or more, and then push full throw to go through a high beta angle at good speed... in calm air (in wind, try and fly directly upwind or downwind and/or various directions and averaging the results)... this tells you a fair amount. For trimming in general, you can also fly flat rudder turns at speed in similar manner. If you read the trimming guide from Peter Goldsmith (a hard-core way to trim planes for sure), he recommends flat turns for the rudder coupling mixes... this can work better in wind also.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:39 PM
Just having fun
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United States, KY, Hopkinsville
Joined Feb 2008
2,078 Posts
I finally got my Byper finished by adding the tail decal. My wife came up with the name and an idea and Callie at callie-graphics.com took it from there. Great experience with Callie Graphics. I think the end result on the plane is awesome.

I only have 4 flights on this plane but she flew great. I just got a Spektrum DX7, moving up from a DX6i. Next decent flying day I will be dialing in a nice knife edge.

And so, without further adieu, I present to you, Echo, my 3D Hobby Shop Vyper Bype.







Freddy
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:01 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
25,891 Posts
Looks great!!

SteveT
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:25 PM
Team 3DHS / Team JR
Bivens's Avatar
United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Apr 2010
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Yes, nice work.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 06:30 AM
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jsmith285's Avatar
Fort Wayne
Joined Feb 2009
4,690 Posts
Sweet plane
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:05 PM
Will work for batteries..
sd2602's Avatar
USA, UT, Kaysville
Joined Feb 2005
462 Posts
Awesome! Maybe I should start naming my planes!!! My wife is the same way, doesnt remember the real names but comes up with some silly name of her own! Either that or just says something like "the red one with 2 wing."
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Joined Jun 2012
3 Posts
Seeing these pictures is making me jealous! My bype just arrived at my work ten minutes ago. Can't wait to get home and start the build!
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