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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:35 AM
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I picked up a 5050 580, and of course ordered the accessory pack thanks to the reviews, a few weeks ago. I'm going to use a Vario four blade prop with this motor. I purchased a CC ice lite 100 ESC and 10 amp BEC as well. I planed on using a 6s, but this thread has me scratching my head now, wondering if I'm taking the wrong path.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:01 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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A 580 Kv motor on 6S would start with a battery voltage at about 6 x 4.2 or 25V for round numbers. And that would give you a full throttle, no load, RPM of 580 x 25 or 14,500.

It is typical for these motors, when running at their continuous rating (a throttle setting that will let the motor run continuously without overheating) to run at about 75% of their no load RPM. So that would mean you want to use a prop that puts a load on the motor that drops the RPM to about 75% of 14,500 or 10,875 RPM.

I know nothing about your prop, is about10,875 RPM a practical RPM for your prop? That would normally be the RPM you get at about 3/4 throttle or so with a fully charged battery.

If you can find where others have used that prop and get the specs on the motor Kv and battery they used or the RPM the prop was used at, it would help you sort it out.

Jack
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:06 AM
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Hi jk6672: You may still be able to use ths motor on 6s with a 4 blade prop, BUT it will be about 12" diameter. That may be too much, you will have to test with a wattmeter. Approx 1200 w max. Going to 5s would maybe allow 13/14 at 60a or 1080watts.
I'd pull the motor apart, check all magnets etc before any tests. Heat is your enemy, one run that overheats the motor will have stuff flying around inside.
Doug B
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Here is a link to the prop I ordered (353-12). I might be in trouble, because 8000rpm is the max load. I may have to order a smaller blade for the higher RPMs?

http://www.eisenbahnarchiv.de/cgi-bi...-12&t=temartic

I also purchased a HK-010 Wattmeter with the motor so I know the load
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Last edited by jk6672; Nov 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:37 PM
Jack
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If you work up to it slowly you may find that 8,000 RPM is more than enough and you don't even want or need to fly at full throttle. Also, the pack voltage will drop as the capacity is used up also and that will drop the RPM some for a given throttle setting.

As an example, here is some thrust to RPM data on a APC E 14x8.5 and it looks like 8,000 RPM or so will get you good thrust. This APC prop (one piece two blade) is rated for about 10,000 RPM.

www.flybrushless.com/prop/view/161

Jack
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:21 AM
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Turnigy 50/50

We have a few of these motors in our flying club & they seem to perform well . I am using one in a chris foss artf acro wot on a 13x6.5 apc prop current draw on 5 tipple cells is 63A this gives good vertical performance & 6min power on time with 3000mA cells. if you are not familiar with the model a 46 to 61 motor would normaly be used typicaly a os55 or irvine53.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Just make SURE you have checked the magnets for glue and correct deficiencies as necessary.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:51 AM
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test updates

after waiting 2 weeks for the accessory parts to come from the global warehouse because they dont stock it in the uk......HK just include it it was 2 bucks??!!

the motor appears well built nothing loose when inspected.

static test results:

turnigy 5 cell 30/40c discharge.

apc e 15 x 10
1465 watts
83 amp draw

will need to prop down to 14 x ?tbc as esc only rated to 70amp, but bags of power.

only time in the air will really say how this performs heat wise etc but it looks promising and a very economical set up if it proves itself. i will keep you posted!
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:53 AM
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ddaveb - im looking to use this power train in an acro wot artf, so would be great if you could tell me how you achieved your conversion - thrust lines etc, batt access?

i cant wait to put the angel in the air and see what it does!
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:43 AM
Jack
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"..turnigy 5 cell 30/40c discharge.

apc e 15 x 10
1465 watts
83 amp draw..."

Those numbers would put a 5S pack at a cell voltage of about 3.53V, was that about right?

If so, and if you use a 5S pack that holds voltage better (3.8-4.0V under load), the input power will be quite a bit higher.

Jack
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:49 AM
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voltage on the watt meter had a total of 20.5v input
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 08:20 AM
Jack
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Was it 20.5V under load? Or before you put the load on it? That would be 4.1V per cell which is a typical charged and rested cell voltage.

What was the capacity of the pack? If it is falling to 3.5V quickly under load you may not have a pack with enough capacity. As an example, a 2000 mAH pack at 80A would be at a 40C discharge rate, while a 4000 mAH pack would be at a 20C rate. And if the pack quality was the same the voltage on the 4000 pack would fall less.

I like to see the voltage stay up around 4V or so under the full throttle at the start of a fliglt and seldom fly at continuous full throttle. So dropping back on throttle a little keeps the voltage up as the flight proceeds. And when a full throttle burst causes the voltage to fall to 3.5-3.7V or so I end the flight.

After a few flights and recharges you have a good feel for the duration in time and know when to land. If your recharges are putting about 80% of the capacity back (1600 on a 2000 mAH pack and 3200 on a 4000 mAH pack for example) then the all of the useful capacity is being used.

if you take the packs down to lower voltages they get warmer and lose their service life quicker. I never want to find a pack more than just a little warm when I wrap my hand around it and the cells should be back up around 3.9-4.0V or so shortly after landing. Sometimes when you get home it is hard to tell a depleted pack that has rested for an hour or two from a charged pack. But it will have little or no useful capacity left in it, put a small load on it and the voltage drops quickly.

Jack
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTRotary View Post
Just make SURE you have checked the magnets for glue and correct deficiencies as necessary.
How do you know if a magnet is glued correctly or not?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:09 PM
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that was under no load. as i tested the prop out there was a drop in voltage and that was followed by a drop in power of around 40 watts. the packs are 4000 mah. will most likely be getting 5000 ones in the next day or so.

further test results:

master air 13 x 8.5
1012 watts (this decreased to 970 watts when pack was at 19.5 odd volts)
58 amp draw

13 x 10 apc e
1070 watts (decreased but not at the level above)
60 amp draw

i have gone for the 13 x 10 set up and ill see what this gives me in flight and let you know how i get on.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk6672 View Post
How do you know if a magnet is glued correctly or not?
Take off the bell and visually inspect. The grooves between the magnets should be full of epoxy, and the small gap between the end of the magnet and the open face of the bell should have an epoxy fillet. Some of the better motors have retention rings in that area but the Turnigy motors typically do not.

You can use either CA or epoxy. Epoxy will soften more with high temps than CA. JB Weld is probably best as it is more resistant to heat than regular epoxy. Obviously, you should make sure the groove area is clean and free of machine oil before you apply the glue.

Before the glue dries, make sure you have not left any glue blobs on the face of the magnets that would impinge on the stator when the motor spins. You'll have a devil of a time trying to sand that down once the glue dries.

While you're there, make sure every grub screw is tight and loktited, and the same goes for the screws that affix the x-mount to the motor. These WILL all come loose if you do not.
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