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Old Sep 25, 2010, 10:18 PM
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Thanks for the info. Sir J. The tip on freezing the aerosol is useful, I guess obvious really, now that I think about it.

I had always assumed that Castrol M, was their Mineral Oil.

I can get 70% ether from the Chemist, do you think it will do the job? Or should I just give it a try?

sparks
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 07:41 AM
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Sparks, 70 % ether…..?
Make sure it is ethyl ether. What is the other 30% in the can?
Give it a try. Determine the “volume” of mix you want, for example 1000 mL is 100% final volume.
To be “safe’ start with 25% oil, or 250 mL.
Use 500 mL of the “ 70% ether”, which may contain 350 mL ethyl ether to give 35% and 150 mL of unknowns or 15%.
Bring to final volume with kerosene with will work out to about 250 mL or 25%.

For starters, perhaps mix up only 100 mL or 1/10 of the above.
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 08:53 AM
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Thanks John,
I too wonder what is the make up material. I suspect the 70% relates to the 'proof' rather like a Scotch Whisky.
I was thinking of either using equal measures, or 40 / 40 / with 20% oil, but i'll take your advice on board regarding the increase in ether.

For sure i'll mix up a little, and give it a try. I will probably also try a similar mix using the easy start material

I'd better find a pipette!

sparks
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks59 View Post

I'd better find a pipette!
Another Vic Smeed design?

Guys, I would watch out puncturing any aerosol cans of flammable, narcotic liquids! What is the point of the freezing? Ether freezes at about -138 C, which will need a hefty fridge in the Gulf. Even frozen, the propellant will still have a dangerous amount of pressure.

I have opened these cans by inverting them, then spraying off the propellant (outdoors) - then put a couple of holes in the bottom with a normal canopener and pour off whatever it is in the tin.

You need precious little ether in the fuel. Dr. Diesel says that if you can smell it, that's enough. It is a very poor "power" ingredient and is there solely to ignite the mixture, so in every sense, least is best.
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Chas has the right idea,invert spray off the propellant OUTDOORS and pour off the ether. I still like about 30% ether and a good amount of castor 25/30% and the rest kerosene .

Mike1484
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 02:23 PM
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Ok guys, I have set my fridge to -140.....just got to wait for it to drop the last 110degrees or so....hmmmm.

Does the refrigeration liquefy the propellant, in which case, maybe being in the fridge is worse, as it will not disperse readily from an upended can?
..or maybe this will help to avoid the problem of residual pressure when I pierce the can?

I gave it a try with the 70% ether, didn't seem at all interested in any action. I dribbled a little of the easy start into the venturi and had a few 'fires' sufficient to kick the prop around and drive the contra-piston back against the screw, but the fuel clearly wasn't igniting.

I'll have to decant the easy start into a suitable airtight container and mix up a better fuel later in the week.

sparks
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Well, most aerosol propellants are lpg or inert gases like nitrogen - you'd have a job to freeze any of them! And no matter, there would always be residual pressure at the temperatures we can produce in our domestic fridges or freezers.
Sounds like the 70% stuff is some weird brew.
I remember Brian Winch describing some balsawood "cozy" boxes, lined with aluminium foil, which he used to cover the cylinder heads between runs to retain the essential heat - and this was in Australia! If you can preheat the head in some manner the need for ether evaporates faster than the stuff itself. Why not start on an energised glowplug and then run on straight kero/oil - I know I'm repeating myself.
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 04:42 PM
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The purpose of sticking it in the freezer is not to freeze it Duh!.
The hotter it it is the more ether will evaporate out when you pour it out of the can.
The colder you can get it, the less ether loss you will have.
If you are in Canada in the Winter then there is not reason to cool it down, if you are in the Tropics in Summer then you will get some benefit and end up with a higher ether concentration in the mixture - if the can says 80% Ether content then that is what you want to aim at getting out and not ending up with a mixture that is only say 50 or 60% ether......
Whichever, the main point is that in the event that you cannot manage to get hold of any Ether, the JD cans are an option.

Mark
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 04:55 PM
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My personal 'ether crisis' is about 1.2 litres away....now that's a lot of engine runtime if you mainly run small engines, but I feel I have to start look around for alternatives....mm, next stop will be the farmer's equipment store, not far from me...

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Old Sep 26, 2010, 04:56 PM
Sir Jasper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks59 View Post

I gave it a try with the 70% ether, didn't seem at all interested in any action. I dribbled a little of the easy start into the venturi and had a few 'fires' sufficient to kick the prop around and drive the contra-piston back against the screw, but the fuel clearly wasn't igniting.

sparks
Sparks,

I would guess that you do not have your settings (compression and / or needle) correct.

Any engine that has had it's setting "twiddled" since the last good run will be out enough to need some messing about with to get it running again.

Diesel engines are not "precision instruments" in their fuel requirements, (although pretty much every brew of fuel will need a slightly different setting) and neither is the diesel fuel mix a "precision" art. Basically any rough mix of ether/oil/kero in reasonably equal proportions will be fine for any diesel engine unless there are some mechanical issues with it.

As Chas says, straight kero/oil will also do it if it is hot enough. I have even started and briefly run an old diesel engine on a squirt of Q20 (similar to WD40 I believe) - BUT you need to know where the correct running settings are to start off with. If these are out even with the "perfect" brew of fuel you are likely to spend many frustrated hours trying to get a run out of it.
Mark
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 05:11 PM
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Here is a less known (or less spoken about) diesel of interesting design, the 7.6 cc Webra 'Boxer'. The photo is scanned from a 1959 catalogue.

One interesting (or is it just weird?) feature is the vacuum pump (shown on the picture), that is supposed to power pneumatic servos (what if the engine quits..?) I wonder whether such servos were available from somewhere, as there must have been a complete 'system' developed, or...?...I have never seen these accessories advertised...maybe the whole idea flopped on an early stage....

With vacuum pump included, the 'Boxer' was priced about 5 times a Webra MachI, or twice the price of a Taplin Twin.....!

Anyone with some knowledge on this basically very fine diesel...?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Off-topic, this reminds me of the early 50's Volvo 444, with its vacuum powered wiper motor....the wipers went really fast when driving slow, and when accelerating, they virtually stopped...
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 05:16 PM
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1300 replies to this thread. Who'da thunk diesels were dead?
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Who'da thunk diesels were dead?
Every diesel has character.

Heinz
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 09:26 PM
"Butchering Balsa since 1971"
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Love my diesels!! At my local RC club, i'm one of 3 people who fly/have flown diesel..and i have gone thru almost 3 quarts since last year, about 2 1/2 flying, and the rest on break-in. I have a little PAW .049 on my Minnie Mambo, and a PAW .15 on my Hummel, and it gets flown just about everytime I go out. The electric guys just kinda scratch their heads, some of the old-timers here nod and grin...
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 10:13 PM
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United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zl3vml View Post
Sparks,

I would guess that you do not have your settings (compression and / or needle) correct.

Any engine that has had it's setting "twiddled" since the last good run will be out enough to need some messing about with to get it running again.

......
As Chas says, straight kero/oil will also do it if it is hot enough. I have even started and briefly run an old diesel engine on a squirt of Q20 (similar to WD40 I believe) - BUT you need to know where the correct running settings are to start off with. If these are out even with the "perfect" brew of fuel you are likely to spend many frustrated hours trying to get a run out of it.
Mark
I'm sure you are correct, the settings are long gone. The needle valve and spray was missing altogether, can't recall the reason, but most probably due to a control liner 'arrival'.

Whilst giving it a few flicks last night I varied the needle setting between 1.5 and 3.5 turns out, I seem to recall it used to start/run at around 2.5. The engine wasn't flooding and there was fuel visible in the line.
I was playing with the compression screw, bringing it up, and, when feeling to tight backing it of a little. The only time it fired was a few flicks after putting in a drizzle of the easy start, only a fire, not a run.

I think Chas is right about the 70% being a weird brew, the ether smell is not as strong as it should be for sure.

Thanks for the input anyway guys, more later.
sparks
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