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Old Jul 13, 2013, 10:14 PM
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United States, FL, Stuart
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Originally Posted by Osborn Cox View Post
Burned through about 9 batteries yesterday evening and today flying with the floats on today doing take offs and landings on the lake. I never would have guessed, but taking off is the part that is sphincter puckering, landing is no more difficult than on grass. Take offs require some real finesse to keep it tracking straight long enough to achieve enough speed for lift off. My only "incident" was on take off last night when it veered hard enough to tip over, luckily no water damage to ESC or Reciever. By the last takeoffs of the day I am getting the hang of it, can't wait for more practice tomorrow.
That's great to hear. Did you test out the different SAFE mode settings for flying with floats? I'm hoping this will help with water take off and landings.

I currently fly a carbon cub and icon a5 as my seaplanes. I'm hoping the apprentice will be a good middle plane between these two. The IconA5 is FAST!
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 10:49 PM
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United States, WI, West Bend
Joined Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by wilanz View Post
That's great to hear. Did you test out the different SAFE mode settings for flying with floats? I'm hoping this will help with water take off and landings.

I currently fly a carbon cub and icon a5 as my seaplanes. I'm hoping the apprentice will be a good middle plane between these two. The IconA5 is FAST!
I did experiment a bit with the different modes for take offs, with the increased elevator throws in advanced I did find I was able to get off the water faster which was helpful. I also did find it easier for taxiing to be in advanced mode with the increased rudder response. I have to admit I was nervous and most of my time was spent in beginner mode today, but it was great fun.
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 10:52 PM
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United States, TX, Katy
Joined Jul 2013
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Another newbie maiden's his Apprentice S 15 E

Hi folks.

Here's my story and experiences with the E-flite Apprentice S 15 E....

Bought my 15 yr old son a Supercub for Christmas about 7 months ago. Read lots of forums and had plenty of folks tell us not to fly until we could hook up with an instructor at a proper airfield. Recognized the good advice, but decided to do our own thing anyway without instructor help (we did spend quite a bit of simulator time before going out with skis on our Supercubs (I ended up getting one for him and one for me) )

My youtube channel has the video of my maiden flight and my son's...
https://www.youtube.com/user/Flyswamper

Fast forward to now.... we are in the process of moving from Canada to Houston,TX. Entire house is packed up including *BOTH* of our Supercubs and gear. But, we are staying with my brother/sister-in-laws for a few weeks now in Oklahoma with a great flying field next to us. In my email in-box I see the video review that the Flite-test guys did on the Apprentice S15E and thought it looked interesting.

So... I wade through all 98 pages of this thread (yes I read every single one of them). Decided I was gonna go get me/us an Apprentice S15e. Went to local hobby shop yesterday (Friday) morning and got the kit and an extra battery. Put it together mid-day with the batteries charging and did my maiden flight late that afternoon.

I took video of the maiden and have it on my phone (not greatest quality). Will upload it eventually, but their internet speeds here are WAY too slow to get it posted for now. The basic summary is...

Take off was easy using the panic button in beginner mode... piece of cake really. Made a trip or two around the field and figured I'd better start working on a landing. Came in kinda high, beginner mode not letting me manuever like I really wanted to, and basically got worried I was going to run out of landing space.... decided to abort and do a go around and flew right into the only small tree in the general area!

Went over and retrieved the plane still stuck fairly high in the tree, noted a few minor knicks on the wing leading edges but no other real marks or damage. Testing control surfaces and took her back up for flights number 2 and 3 about 2 minutes later. Those went much better as I kept it simple and paid closer attention to that tree.

Fast forward to tonight... I've had my 15 yr old son flying the apprentice on our Phoenix 4.0 simulator for the last day or so and also got his ~23 yr old cousin to do a lot of simulation flying as well (the 23 yr old happens to be an aerospace engineering student in University). Anyway, tonight (Saturday night) was really calm winds here so we got our there and took the plane up again.

I got it up, made a few trips around and handed it to my 15 yr old in beginner mode (with me close enough to flip the panic switch if I wanted to ). He did great. I forced him to let me land it the first time, but later he did a solo full take-off to landing flight himself. But he had solo'd his Supercub as you can see in the videos on my youtube channel so it wasn't that new for him.

For his 23 yr old cousin, I also decided to let him fly it also. Got the plane pretty high in beginner mode again with me close enough to hit the panic switch if I wanted to. He did good and was cautious. Same thing as my son, first time I handed it to him he just flew a few circuits in beginner mode. After a few trips of that, I eventually trusted him enough that he managed to do a full take-off-to-landing solo on his own without me touching the control (actually I touched the controls switching him briefly to advanced mode and back to beginner so he could do a roll).

All in all it was a VERY fun day for us. No more flying into trees since the lack of wind gave us much better options for landing approaches than I had yesterday. Two young men successfully did full solo maiden flights (for them) with the S 15 E apprentice (with me nervously standing by them telling them where to fly and how high to stay ).

We are ready to get out there again tomorrow evening weather permitting.

Aside from flying directly into the tree, I did have one strange/unusual occurrence that troubles me a bit. Here is what happened.

Last flight of Friday evening... I'm flying around the field fairly cautiously. The plane is relatively close to me when I seemingly lose control of the plane. It appears to be partially responding to my commands and then it seems it isn't responding at all. We kinda sorta think it might have lost communication with the transmitter since it almost seemed to start into a descending circular flight pattern.... but then it would change (seemingly I got brief control again) then again into circles...... After a few moments of that, the plane eventually and thankfully came down fairly softly in a bit of crash/uncontrolled landing with me not being able to do anything about it.

So... today I got brand new transmitter batteries even though I'm convinced that wasn't the problem since the batteries were nearly new anyway and the plane was really close to us when the problem happened.

Next I take the wing off and hook up the battery to that I can get all the controls to respond normally except that the elevator was totally unresponsive. I unplug servo for the elevator from the ESC and plug it back in to see if that would change it. Still have everything working except the elevator which is totally unresponsive to any inputs. I decide that perhaps the servo has gone bad or maybe the ESC has a problem since all the others seem to work. Decide I'm going to visit the hobby shop Monday morning and see what they think.

I show my 23yr old cousin the situation and he points out that I may have plugged in the lead from the servo to the ESC backwards based on the wire colors. Sure enough, I pull it out, reverse it, and plug it back in and now the elevator is working normally. This bothers me quite a bit since it wasn't working a bit earlier and the wiring was as it had come from the factory (and as we had already flown it). But.... I now had an aircraft that seemed to be working normally.... so being the risk taker that I am.... we put it together and had a great evening of flying (with both of them solo'ing as mentioned already).

I still don't know why I lost control of the plane at the end of Friday's flying and why the elevator wasn't working when I tried it first thing Saturday though....

Anyway... those are the adventures of a reckless newbie with a new Apprentice S15E...... it has been a fun couple of days

video will come in a few weeks once I get settled in Houston with high speed internet....

Take care folks and don't forget to have fun!

Flyswamper
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 04:57 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined May 2013
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Well, unfortunately I am still disappointed. See prior posts on my rc air history. I bought the new Apprentice S last month and had my first solo takeoffs and landings, spent a few days actually learning and enjoying flying! Then several weeks ago while at our club field while up high, the elevator snapped off, and the plane nosedived.

Instead of shipping me a new plane like I hoped, Horizon shipped me new foam parts ( fuse, tail, and tail) and told me transfer over the servos, motor etc. I spent hours doing this. Then I left work early last week to finally fly again! I get home and prep the plane and attach the clevis for tail section. I notice the elevator servo is stripped and make a loud grinding sound. Crap! I then try to bind the receiver and it wont go into bind mode. I call Horizon and they agree to swap out the receiver. I also try to unbend the nose gear from the initial crash and the wire snaps. I order dubro nose gear which is heavier duty but I have to drill out th firewall hole and unsure how to hook up to servo.

Horizon tells me they will send me a new servo firewall and nosegear. Only the firewall arrives.

Well now its the weekend and I really want to fly. I buy a new elevator digital servo at LHS $20 and go fly. When I takeoff, unlike when I got the plane and put in beginner mode to take off and it happena successfully, the plane jumps up into the air and I pull the panic mode. Nothing happens and I pull the panic sqitch so hard it snaps off and the plane crashes. Man!

The motor is shot and the esc is hot. Well I luckily have a spare aftermarket esc and motor so I hook them up and try again. I carefully prepare for takeoff, triple check the tx is in beginner mode, and throttle up. It begins to climb, I bank it left, and it stops responding well. Its definitely not performing in accordance with SAFE! It starts getting out of control and am afraid it may go by a nearby trail and dont want the possibility of a hiker getting hit. I try to get it to crash away from th trail.

I email Horizon and tell them what happened. I tell them I have tried their piecemeal approach and it hasnt worked. I want them to send me a replacement RTF like I originally bought and was working well before the elevator snapped off in flight.

What do you guys think? Part of me wants to quit. Too much frustration and hours of tinkering and not enough flying time. Ive already spent probably $1000 including the original Apprentice in 2011, this Apprentice S plus numerous batteries, charger, miscelaneous and a P51 arf sitting ona shelf 80percent built waiting for me to competently learn to fly.

If I were to buy a third Apprentice now Id feel like a fool. Last car I bought was an Acura. Its a great car but the trans blew. It was covered under warranty. They installed it and didnt ask me to.

JeffreyRC
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 05:23 PM
wjs
William
United States, MI, Brighton
Joined Oct 2012
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Originally Posted by Flyswamper View Post
Next I take the wing off and hook up the battery to that I can get all the controls to respond normally except that the elevator was totally unresponsive. I unplug servo for the elevator from the ESC and plug it back in to see if that would change it. Still have everything working except the elevator which is totally unresponsive to any inputs. I decide that perhaps the servo has gone bad or maybe the ESC has a problem since all the others seem to work. Decide I'm going to visit the hobby shop Monday morning and see what they think.

I show my 23yr old cousin the situation and he points out that I may have plugged in the lead from the servo to the ESC backwards based on the wire colors. Sure enough, I pull it out, reverse it, and plug it back in and now the elevator is working normally. This bothers me quite a bit since it wasn't working a bit earlier and the wiring was as it had come from the factory (and as we had already flown it). But.... I now had an aircraft that seemed to be working normally.... so being the risk taker that I am.... we put it together and had a great evening of flying (with both of them solo'ing as mentioned already).
...
Flyswamper
Flyswamper. I can't follow all the issues here, but will take a stab at some answers or comments:
1) The servos plug into the Receiver, not the ESC (just a note). The ESC throttle wire plugs into the RX throttle channel.
2) If elevator servo was reversed in the RX, it would have never worked - ever. If it ever flew, the servo was in right at that time. Somehow it got reversed.
3) Always do ground surface control checks before field and at field. Do range checks also after any change.
4) Keep those bats on 3 or 4 green lights.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 05:40 PM
wjs
William
United States, MI, Brighton
Joined Oct 2012
1,957 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffreyrc View Post
Well, unfortunately I am still disappointed. See prior posts on my rc air history. I bought the new Apprentice S last month and had my first solo takeoffs and landings, spent a few days actually learning and enjoying flying! Then several weeks ago while at our club field while up high, the elevator snapped off, and the plane nosedived.

Instead of shipping me a new plane like I hoped, Horizon shipped me new foam parts ( fuse, tail, and tail) and told me transfer over the servos, motor etc. I spent hours doing this. Then I left work early last week to finally fly again! I get home and prep the plane and attach the clevis for tail section. I notice the elevator servo is stripped and make a loud grinding sound. Crap! I then try to bind the receiver and it wont go into bind mode. I call Horizon and they agree to swap out the receiver. I also try to unbend the nose gear from the initial crash and the wire snaps. I order dubro nose gear which is heavier duty but I have to drill out th firewall hole and unsure how to hook up to servo.

Horizon tells me they will send me a new servo firewall and nosegear. Only the firewall arrives.

Well now its the weekend and I really want to fly. I buy a new elevator digital servo at LHS $20 and go fly. When I takeoff, unlike when I got the plane and put in beginner mode to take off and it happena successfully, the plane jumps up into the air and I pull the panic mode. Nothing happens and I pull the panic sqitch so hard it snaps off and the plane crashes. Man!

The motor is shot and the esc is hot. Well I luckily have a spare aftermarket esc and motor so I hook them up and try again. I carefully prepare for takeoff, triple check the tx is in beginner mode, and throttle up. It begins to climb, I bank it left, and it stops responding well. Its definitely not performing in accordance with SAFE! It starts getting out of control and am afraid it may go by a nearby trail and dont want the possibility of a hiker getting hit. I try to get it to crash away from th trail.

I email Horizon and tell them what happened. I tell them I have tried their piecemeal approach and it hasnt worked. I want them to send me a replacement RTF like I originally bought and was working well before the elevator snapped off in flight.

What do you guys think? Part of me wants to quit. Too much frustration and hours of tinkering and not enough flying time. Ive already spent probably $1000 including the original Apprentice in 2011, this Apprentice S plus numerous batteries, charger, miscelaneous and a P51 arf sitting ona shelf 80percent built waiting for me to competently learn to fly.

If I were to buy a third Apprentice now Id feel like a fool. Last car I bought was an Acura. Its a great car but the trans blew. It was covered under warranty. They installed it and didnt ask me to.

JeffreyRC
In my mind we need to keep focused on the primary issue here. Not the other planes or misc stuff (which only gets more $$). The issue in my mind is after you got put new servo in, why did it not fly? Was it another servo binding or bad esc bad. Is the RX and/or TX bad? Something is not adding up. Why was the ESC so hot? Was the throttle still high after hitting ground? Are you using the stock battery or something else?
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 05:51 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined May 2013
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I think the throttle was left high when I was literally panicking and grabbing onto the panic switch till it broke. I was using the original battery.

JeffreyRC
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 06:12 PM
wjs
William
United States, MI, Brighton
Joined Oct 2012
1,957 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffreyrc View Post
I think the throttle was left high when I was literally panicking and grabbing onto the panic switch till it broke. I was using the original battery.

JeffreyRC
Stay with it. Even if it does not feel like it now, you are learning all good lessons and will have happier days ahead. It is difficult to answer everything over a forum. Any chance you can get it back together and go out with someone more experienced? Hobby shop guy or other? If you post your general location, I am sure someone here would volunteer quickly (I would).
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 07:45 PM
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United States, TX, Katy
Joined Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjs View Post
Flyswamper. I can't follow all the issues here, but will take a stab at some answers or comments:
1) The servos plug into the Receiver, not the ESC (just a note). The ESC throttle wire plugs into the RX throttle channel.
2) If elevator servo was reversed in the RX, it would have never worked - ever. If it ever flew, the servo was in right at that time. Somehow it got reversed.
3) Always do ground surface control checks before field and at field. Do range checks also after any change.
4) Keep those bats on 3 or 4 green lights.
Thanks. I wasn't all that clear since my troubles were an after thought to the post. Here is an attempt at explaining it.

- flew plane successfully for maybe 2 hrs of flying time (multiple flights,rotating 2 batteries)

- plane stopped responding to me control inputs. Prop still had power, I was pretty close to it (maybe 30 yards away).

- while it wasn't responding prop was still powered and there were no audible cues to indicate LVC. Testing after showed still had over 11volts on me 3 cell lipo.

- plane behaviour when un responsive seemed to be descending in tight turns (like manual seems to imply loss of radio contact would do)

- plane softly crash landed with no damage! I called it a night without much thought or further investigation

- next morning I install new batts in transmitter even though the prior ones still showed 3/4 lights on the tx.

- plane didn't seem to be bound to transmitter, so I went through bind process.

- after binding all seemed normal EXCEPT that elevators were totally unresponsive to my inputs and didn't move during SAFE initialization process either.

- that is when I unplug the elevator servo for first time and plugged it in backwards to find no change.

- nephew notices I put it in backwards, I correct it and it starts working normally.

- we fly it for a hour or more at evening after that.

So...... One possibility is that somehow the plug/ connection to the elevators came undone mid flight? And was only fixed when I reinserted correctly. But there seems to have been a radio connection problem too..... I am not really sure what happened. Thankfully it is all good now, but is a bit worrisome that I don't know why I lost control or why the elevator wasn't working until I messed with the wiring.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:16 PM
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I've been gone from the thread for a while after I lost my plane, BUT coming back as of today. I ordered a replacement "S" today and am pumped to hopefully receive it this week. They were going to try to get it on a truck today, although the order went through after their cut-off. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what plane to get other than the "S", but realized that a trainer with flight modes and panic switch are something that I'd always want to have in the "Hanger" for teaching/showing friends/playing with my kids. While I hate buying the same thing twice, I'll have a tx and charger I can try to sell to a friend to get him in the hobby with some bind and fly planes.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Australia, QLD, Ferny Hills
Joined Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
Awesome! And thanks for sharing that as we're not a trusting lot mostly and it's nice to know that there is a corporation that has our back here, especially with this bleeding edge technology.

All you guys with Apprentice S's are pioneers who are not getting all the arrows this time! Horizon is standing tall and being more than fair and they need to be publicly thanked for that!
New ESC/Rec arrived, fitted and tested. Hopefully the weekend weather forecast will hold up so I can ring a few more hours out of it.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:44 PM
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United States, TX, Plano
Joined Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by Flyswamper View Post
.

So...... One possibility is that somehow the plug/ connection to the elevators came undone mid flight? And was only fixed when I reinserted correctly. But there seems to have been a radio connection problem too..... I am not really sure what happened. Thankfully it is all good now, but is a bit worrisome that I don't know why I lost control or why the elevator wasn't working until I messed with the wiring.
Something alike happened to me with a Stryker plane. I think that during one of those "not so soft" landings the esc and receiver moved and something was not making good contact. When I opened the hatch and re-sit the plugs everything was perfect. Just a thought
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffreyrc View Post

What do you guys think? Part of me wants to quit. Too much frustration and hours of tinkering and not enough flying time. Ive already spent probably $1000 including the original Apprentice in 2011, this Apprentice S plus numerous batteries, charger, miscelaneous and a P51 arf sitting ona shelf 80percent built waiting for me to competently learn to fly.

If I were to buy a third Apprentice now Id feel like a fool.

JeffreyRC
Dont give up my friend, starts are sometimes very bumpy!
I bought the S maybe 3-4 weeks ago can't recall. I crashed it, I repaired it; I stall it and crashed it again, I replaced ESC, motor and 2 servos just to lose like a fool
I have crashed my Stryker 2 times and have lost 1 fuselage and 2 batteries. Definitely bumpy! I know what I shouldn't do and somehow I have done every newbie mistake I could BUT I understand the plane and have developed skills (repairing skills mostly)
Its fun! (not the $$ part) and that is why I'll keep at it
Cheers
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rossmort View Post
I've been gone from the thread for a while after I lost my plane, BUT coming back as of today. I ordered a replacement "S" today and am pumped to hopefully receive it this week. They were going to try to get it on a truck today, although the order went through after their cut-off. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what plane to get other than the "S", but realized that a trainer with flight modes and panic switch are something that I'd always want to have in the "Hanger" for teaching/showing friends/playing with my kids. While I hate buying the same thing twice, I'll have a tx and charger I can try to sell to a friend to get him in the hobby with some bind and fly planes.
Ross I am on the same boat, Lost my S on Saturday
It flew great (I got a 40amp ESC and a E-flite 25 870Kv), then flew the stryker and at 9 PM and decided that I haven't had enough and the S had to go up again.
Well, somehow I let her go downwind and next thing I know I can't quite tell if she is coming or going. I spent the next 8 minutes banking the plane to the right and using elevator to try to figure out what direction she is turning to be able to know which direction she is going. The bad thing is that it was becoming darker and darker and even though sometimes it looked like she was coming, due to throttle she was also climbing and messing with my perception....
It was a great sunset when my S disappeared... it was so tiny that I just turned the Tx off and went for a ride to see if I could see her splashed somewhere.
Nothing. not that day and not the next day. That thing could be 1 mile from where I "thought" it could be.

Anyway, I was thinking to buy something "different" to try but haven't been able to find something that matches the S(and I still have many extra parts) so I think I will get another one. That is my position as of now. Will decide later during the weekend.

Cheers!
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 10:29 PM
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I think the lesson is, if you lose orientation downwind, it's far better to bring it down and crash rather than risk losing it all together. Crashing might cost $10-$50. Losing it cost the full $300.
I learned that on day 2 of my Stratos. I was lucky enough to find it in a tree with no damage.
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