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Old Feb 08, 2015, 06:57 PM
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Enlarged 104" Kadet build; flap, dihedral and aileron questions...

I'm seriously considering building an enlarged 104" to 110" Kadet. It will be a 4 channel with ailerons, wing-tube, and I'm guessing about 15-17 lbs dry and powered by a G38 or DLE 35. (You mean you haven't seen my classified want-ad badgering everybody and his brother for a nice condition Racal landing gear with pants? )

1) I'm wondering how much total dihedral to build the wing with. While I want the plane to still be a fun and stable kind of a weekend flier (or why build a Kadet?), I'd also like to be able to do modest aerobatics and get the plane to at least roll easy and do other simple stuff without losing it's "kadet" charachtersistics. So how much dihedral would be a good compromise? (To avoid confusion if you tell me 6 dihedral, I'll take that to mean 3 for each wing half.)

2)
a) Should I bother putting flaps in a Kadet?
b) If you suggest I add flaps, then should I consider making barndoor style ailerons?...... since I will be losing aileron length when flaps are installed.


3) If not barn-door then should I make seperate solid balsa strip ailerons, or, make built-into the wing ailerons?
Thus far, I have never built a plane larger then my 85" Big Bingo or an enlarged 89" AstroHog . Both had solid balsa strip ailerons. I made the aileron for the Hog by shaping a solid 24" rectangle of balsa block into the usual triangular aileron stock configuration to blend in with the contour of the rest of the wing. The Big Bingo came with solid aileron stock. My question is whether I should just build my 104"- 110" Kadet wings with built-up ailerons or barn-door ailerons in them, in which they are just cut free from the wing later and hinged......or use solid aileron balsa stock? What I'm describing is very similar to the construction used when doing barndoor style ailerons as seen here of building it into the wing; http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff/kadflap.htm

Any other recommendations or input is appreciated and will be taken into consideration for the build.

PS Just a note to the hall monitors types; Yes I know I posted this in one other RC websight. You caught me! But it will hardly get noticed there, and I can use all good input I can get here too.
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Old Feb 08, 2015, 07:33 PM
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Hmmm! Guess I'd do about 2* dihedral. But thats just me, I like the wings on my big high wing designs to be relatively flat. Yes, do flaps and barn door ailerons. With a lot of wing area it can be a real floater. I'd go with the dle35ra. If built light enough a 20cc would fly it. My rascal 110 has flown on saito 1.20 and 20cc easily.
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Old Feb 08, 2015, 09:06 PM
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I'm just laying out the plans for a second wing (with ailerons) on my Kadet.

I was planning on no dihedral. In my experience on smaller planes, even a little dihedral on a high wing plane can work against the ailerons. Also, it looks like the four channel ARF SIG now sells has no dihedral?
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Old Feb 10, 2015, 10:21 AM
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Thanks guys.......then I figure I'll do greatly reduced dihedral.

An interesting point that somebody made on another thread was that a slight amount of dihedral is preferred over zero dihedral. His reasoning was that it prevents the wings from becoming drooped, or looking droopy.
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Old Feb 11, 2015, 06:43 PM
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I built a Kadet night flyer and added ailerons to the wing. It has about 1 degree of dihedral and it still is not aerobatic. The flat bottom wing is just not aerobatic.
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Old Feb 12, 2015, 05:25 PM
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1- the wing needs just enough dihedral to look "not flat"...

2 If you're scaling a stock wing up, ailerons five bays long, hinged at the spar are very effective..ailerons work on area...a 1" by 24" one can be replaced by a 4" by 6" one, near the tip.- still 24 sq in.

3 A Kadet doesn't NEED flaps, but you'll be missing a whole bunch of fun if you don't add them.

4 "Aerobatic" is in the mind of the owner, and his expectations.....will a Kadet roll like an Extra ? absolutely not- but it WILL roll, with ailerons.

I have 13 Kadet Seniors under my belt, built for various club members over several years. I know what I'm talking about.
Knock yourself out , Bro. We're here for you.
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Old Feb 12, 2015, 06:18 PM
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Thanks Earl for the detailed input and encouragement. I'm figuring the more enhancements I add onto the plane at the start, the less "I shoulda-coulda built it that way" regrets I'll have later. The first real RC plane I built was 20 years ago and is a Sig Seniorita that I still have. For the first few years, I kept realizing what the plane was lacking and ended up doing the following necessary alterations over time;

1) I took the Seniorita wing apart, and added strip ailerons.
2) I cut open the belly to add a removable hatch to it to access the glo tank.
3) I cut open the center joint of the wing to convert the plane from rubberbands to a bolt on wing.

All of that would have been much easier to do before I had put the nice translucent Monokote on it!

You can now bet that my 110" gasser will have flaps, barndoor ailerons, very little dihedral, ......... and a tailwheel too!
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Old Feb 12, 2015, 06:49 PM
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Totally forgot the tailwheel !

Let me tell you about when I was young, and dumb...I built an Original Kadet when Sig first made them.. My radio used 4 AA batteries for the receiver..So I made a little hatch under the fuel tank, to change batteries with out removing the wing.
At one family Reunion, I flew the Kadet, and pulled a hard loop....the batteries literally tore out the hatch, and plummeted to the ground, as the Kadet merrily looped away, over the country side.

Strong hatches have been my forte' ever since.
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Old Feb 12, 2015, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epoxyearl View Post
Totally forgot the tailwheel !

Let me tell you about when I was young, and dumb...I built an Original Kadet when Sig first made them.. My radio used 4 AA batteries for the receiver..So I made a little hatch under the fuel tank, to change batteries with out removing the wing.
At one family Reunion, I flew the Kadet, and pulled a hard loop....the batteries literally tore out the hatch, and plummeted to the ground, as the Kadet merrily looped away, over the country side.

Strong hatches have been my forte' ever since.
....
....
I'm sorry.....but I'm envisioning that and LMAO. I don't care who you are... now that there is funny!


Btw....ummmm.....now that you mention it, maybe before I laught too hard I best go check out my Sig Seniorita's hatch too!! I don't want to find out how poorly glo fuel will or will not siphon into a carb when the tank is hanging by its lines from underneath the plane!
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Old Feb 12, 2015, 09:30 PM
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Yeah, got a chuckle out of that one too. I've seen the hatch battery ejection mode more than a few times, other people. I tie my battery connectors together with kite string now. You only have to have a battery come unplugged once to not do that again.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 06:07 AM
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On their Kadet Senior Sport, Sig uses 6 bay ailerons. When I built my kit built Senior Sport, I did the same.

I designed in no dihedral.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 06:35 AM
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Randall, Tom...The lack of Dihedral in the yellow Sr of Tom's shows what some folks say- it looks 'saggy'. I build in about 1/2" of angle to prevent that.(1/4". each tip)

I'm sure that it doesn't bother everyone, and I doubt if it changes the "sensitivity" of the aileron response.

Tom have you 'rolled' yours?- With the five bays that I usually use, rolls are no sweat..again, it's not an "Extra" but you can't expect that, anyway.

They look so good with a tailwheel. Good job Tom.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 06:41 AM
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Thanks, Earl !

My Kadet is a virgin, finished after snow was on the ground. I'll perform the maiden when it melts...Say mid-June.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 07:17 AM
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Tom has a good looker there. Yeah, I'm thinking either 5 or 6 bays makes little difference to flight control, just depends on what one wants in looks.

My Travel Air build had what I thought were pretty small ailerons (five bays and short of going to the aft spars) and I wondered if they would be adequate but they provide plenty of roll control right down to the plane crawling along even with 60% differential. When wings are long, the lever arm is strong.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 08:12 AM
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It looks to me like maybe they moved the rear spar back a bit to thin out the ailerons on the ARF? Also interesting is that they added sheeting to the trailing edge inboard of the ailerons?
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