Originally Posted by saltyzoo

It does seem uncharacteristic of a man who came back from cancer to win 7 tours.

If he managed to cheat on all those hundreds of drug tests, then he could be a very wealthy person indeed if he were to show the USADA how he did it.

I imagine that it would be worth quite a lot of money to that organization in payment to Lance if he would show them how he made them look so, so stupid with all their drug tests that didn't mean anything.

Is Lance some kind of trained bio-chemist or something? That would be cool.

This might be a good move on Lances part. Just put the whole thing on them. Rather than beating his head against the wall, make them now responsible for the prosecution and the defense instead of just attack attack attack.

And someone was right above. If they strip Lance in this way, I can't say that I am going to be very excited for next year's races. This is crap.

Originally Posted by Highflight

"People" have agendas, jealousies and false memories.

"Documentation" (hundreds of negative tests) suffer from none of that. Just the factual truth of "what is", not "what someone wants it to be".

Yes. I'm sure all of the people claiming to have seen him cheat all share the same false memory.

I think they all share the common denominator of having cheated.

Originally Posted by RumRunner_1492

Yes. I'm sure all of the people claiming to have seen him cheat all share the same false memory.

That's just a couple of them. "Agendas and jealousies" covers the rest.

Originally Posted by Highflight

That's just a couple of them. "Agendas and jealousies" covers the rest.

That what it boils down to.

Originally Posted by Highflight

I myself am bothered by the hundreds upon hundreds of drug tests he's had to take throughout his career; before, during, and after every sanctioned race he has won.
What I'm bothered with is how he managed to beat those hundreds of tests that were specifically designed to find drugs in his system, but didn't.

As far as the "handful" of people who claim he doped, against the hundreds of tests that prove that he didn't, I have a saying I often have to recite to both my employees and customers: "Documentation trumps memory every time".

We have hundreds of documented drug tests that prove he wasn't doping against a handful of people who "remember" things from years ago.
I put my money on the documentation.

I drive my car everyday.......I haven't had a speeding ticket in two years...the fact that I haven't had a speeding ticket in two years proves that I never speeded or done anything illegal while driving during that time.



I used to follow bike racing fairly closely, especially in the early 90's. I met Lance back when he was 21, and I saw him in several races on the East coast. I also knew several people at that time who worked at those races, and had to deal with the riders. They pretty much said Lance back then came off as a cocky jerk. Most rider accounts I've seen about him over the years say that his public persona is Mr Niceguy Cancer Survivor, but he's a real jerk in person. I don't believe his personality has changed at all over the years.

I never really liked the guy as a person, he always seemed to come off as either a head, or a phony. Especially in interviews, he reminded me of a beady-eyed creep who wasn't believable, Floyd Landis gave me the same feeling watching him too.

I always thought the reason why Lance got cancer in the first place was of because of some type of PED's he was using. Back in the 90's people were doping up like crazy, and the tests weren't advanced enough to catch the kind of drugs they were taking back then. The rage back then was EPO, which gave you more red blood cells, and let your body utilize oxygen better. The problem with EPO was that it also made your blood thicker, and guys in their 20s-30s back then were having heart attacks and dying from it. Back then pretty much EVERYBODY had to cheat somehow just to keep up with the peloton.

I think one of the last "clean" tour winners was Greg LeMond. After LeMond won his last tour the riders kept getting faster and faster, and we had guys like Miguel Indurain winning the Tour. Indurain was riding with guys who were doped to the gills, and he was something like 6ft tall, and he was beating pure climbers who were the size of horsejockeys up the mountains. At the time I was thinking to myself how is this possible ?!.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/19462071/

Now after all these years later the guys who were at the top of the sport back then are coming out of the closet and readily admitting they were all doped up at the time. The reason why they never got caught was that they were using state of the art drugs meant for either cancer patients, or for animals, and the tests couldn't detect the drugs. Not only that, they had team doctors who knew how the drugs worked, and exactly when to take them, so the tests wouldn't come back positive.

Lance did get nabbed twice previously, but the results were either blown off, or came back inconclusive due to the testing methods they had back in those days. Any time someone said anything bad about him he threatened them with legal action. The cycling community is a pretty small one, and you don't want to piss off a multi-million dollar star, his sponsors, or people in the industry, because it's a tight-knit group. Lance knew that and used it to strong-arm people into submission. Greg LeMond said some disparaging remarks about Lance, and Lance put pressure on Trek to ruin LeMond's bicycle company.

That's pretty much how Lance works, say anything about him and he threatens to sue or ruin your career. I remember reading stories about him, and how he dumped both his wife Kristen and Sheryl Crow about the same time they got cancer. He was also seen schmoozing around with one of the Olsen twins after he and Crow broke up. I think Lance isn't the clean cut American cycling hero he tries to be in the press. To me he's got one fake public media persona, and a second real persona who is seedier and a total prick.

Originally Posted by Usta Bee

I drive my car everyday.......I haven't had a speeding ticket in two years...the fact that I haven't had a speeding ticket in two years proves that I never speeded or done anything illegal while driving during that time.

Bad analogy. For that to work you would have had to drive through every speed trap in town, every time you drove anywhere, with your speedometer being checked between each trip for accuracy.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

Lance is not guilty... he is simply tired of all the accusations.
Accusations cause suspicions... that is why it is evil to accuse people.

So you are against unfounded accusations? Like, say, accusing someone of dodging taxes, being Kenyan, or being a felon?

Welcome to Camp Reasonable! Grab a beer and have a seat!

Originally Posted by Usta Bee

I drive my car everyday.......I haven't had a speeding ticket in two years...the fact that I haven't had a speeding ticket in two years proves that I never speeded or done anything illegal while driving during that time.

Care to let me check your car for evidence of speeding? I will only tag you if your over 80 mph.

Originally Posted by RumRunner_1492

Too funny. Given the number of people who have said they have seen him cheating it seems pretty clear. Lazy thinking is burying your head in the sand and not paying attention to the whole situation. If the guy hadn't cheated he would fight to protect his name. He isn't. That is your answer.

I know probably 200 people who "have seen a UFO" I'm not going to take that as proof positive they exist.

He has been fighting this crap since his first win.

The man is TIRED OF THE BS. (Almost direct quote from a radio interview).

Originally Posted by Highflight

If he managed to cheat on all those hundreds of drug tests, then he could be a very wealthy person indeed if he were to show the USADA how he did it.

I imagine that it would be worth quite a lot of money to that organization in payment to Lance if he would show them how he made them look so, so stupid with all their drug tests that didn't mean anything.

Is Lance some kind of trained bio-chemist or something? That would be cool.

This. Another out of control government agency at work.

The French hate to lose, Lance them off by waking up in the morning.

I have 1 bad feedback out of 174 feedbacks on Ebay, is was a French guy that was not happy with shipping time and customs to France. Maybe I should have doped the package for speed...

A Cheat is A Cheat...Just like Crack is Wack
O how the mighty fall!

Ya just can't fix stupid

Originally Posted by aerogel

A Cheat is A Cheat...Just like Crack is Wack
O how the mighty fall!

Ya just can't fix stupid

The only problem is that there's no evidence that he cheated.