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Old Jan 21, 2013, 02:15 PM
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I'm not using any type. as I told you I'm using a blank, unaltered model slot. Maybe you could try that.

In Phoenix, Trex 700 hovers and climbs inverted, throttle hold switch works. On my Tx TH is the top/front switch on the right hand side, the GEAR switch.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:06 PM
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Thanks

Even with a blank model it is set to a type..you can see this in setup configuration
I dont know the 9XR firmware but I think it is easy to see

I can fly inverted..but I had to configure a IDLE1 fly mode..and I saw in an article that you do need to change fly mode because phoenix doesnt do

http://ginnylee.hubpages.com/hub/Pho...light-Settings
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:40 PM
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I am a helicopter newbie, so I can hardly talk about pitch ratios and collective settings etc. But I have RealFlight 6.5 and Phoenix 4.

I was trying to practice hovering on Phoenix because I plan to get a Blade helicopter of some sort and Phoenix has a lot of Blades and wanted to use my dx6i on the sim. I didn't expect I would pick up hovering right away, but I just couldn't get it at all, not even tail in. I kept doing small corrections and ended up with the pendulum effect. I turned up the elevator/aileron expo's to 70%, cut the rates to 75% - better but still not good. Tried for several weeks with only a little bit if improvement.

So I went back to RealFlight, and choose the hover trainer. To my surprise I could keep the helicopter in the ring for as long as I wanted (tail in) with the Interlink/Futaba controller at stock settings. Flight mode set to 'realistic', physics set to 100%. Turned to the side - not as good, but could still keep it in the ring (or land before I went outside the ring). So maybe the RealFlight Dominion helicopter in the trainer is too easy. I put the Axe 400 and could still hover. Before my "practice marathon" on Phoenix, I could not hover on RealFlight.

I went back to Phoenix (700 size heli). This time I turned the simulation speed down to 75%. Now I could hover, but still not as good as RealFlight.

Now I'm wondering, which simulator is more correct?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:50 PM
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I don't think there's a scientific way to tell. Maybe both are wide of the mark. The bigger models do seem much easier to hover in Phoenix, but through persistence reasonable hovering is possible. I'm wobbly, but learning to damp the pendulum with timing and getting the size and direction of my nudges right. I find it simpler to sometimes treat pitch and roll as separate things to correct. Haven't made much use of the official hover training bit, just free flying so I'm forced to learn collective too.

I also didn't believe the simulation at first (it must be the software because I'm a natural pilot etc), but I started following the superb youtube series below, and the instructor seemed to keep it rock steady. I then find out that he uses zero added expo at 100% physics, so that's what I started using. Just make sure you have a V curve on throttle in your profile if you want to follow the whole course.

Once you know it can be done...I'm still struggling mightily with nose in, but it is possible with some of the bigger birds, with practice. Also, some of them have a bit of expo built into the model parameters (Model/Edit/Control Expo), but rarely more than 20%. Maybe you have too much expo deadening the sticks.

I'm liking the Outrage R/C 550 on a beach at the moment.

Have a look, I found it very useful, and it clearly can be done. Good luck.
http://www.chadrg.com/flightschool/
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:34 PM
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That page had a nice tutorial, at least as far as the order of things. I guess there aren't any "tips and tricks" to make hovering easier for a beginner. Just have to train those thumbs!

It was interesting that he asks you to practice inverted hovering before doing circles. I would have guessed that "inverted" would be something 'optional' at the end.

Interestingly, I have found that all this hover training is making me a better fixed wing pilot - especially landings. Or maybe it's wishful thinking.

I looked at this tutorial as well. I found it difficult to do the sliding with the training gear on the sim without getting stuck and tipping over. Especially going backwards:
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/how-t...licopters.html
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:32 PM
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Thanks for the link, a good read.

My take on training kits is that they are more to protect the heli and bank balance than an actual aid to training. With a sim, a crash doesn't mean weeks on the repair bench. Just as well really.

I've been flying a knockabout fixed pitch helicopter irl, so I felt like I could safely spare myself the indignity of plastic balls.

I think the approach of chadrg is that if you're going to learn 3d, upside-down is an arbitrary concept, it just needs a gentle introduction, but it's no different really.
Probably not suitable if you only want scale or sport flying.

It means I have months of just hovering ahead, but when I bust out and actually fly around in the sim, I am much more in control now. I set my throttle to linear sometimes and fly planks around for light relief, so the endless hovering is broken up. I'm terrible at landing them, however. When I used to fly combat flight sim games I could usually spot an aircraft carrier landing with a hot jet, but I struggle to land a biplane in a field without bouncing fatally at the moment.

I think it all helps though. After a while your brain learns it somehow and you don't have to concentrate quite so hard, which frees up capacity for learning new stuff. I think you're right, it's just a matter of putting the hours in.

So, nano CPX, mCPX or 130X for you, or are you going bigger? 130X for me, I think.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:02 PM
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I was fairly comfortable flying around the house with an MSR, but something burned out on the main board. I may have it repaired, but in the meantime I bought a used nano CPX, but haven't received it yet. I think an mCPX would have been a better next step, but my house is very small, and I have heard that it may be a bit too powerful to fly in such a small area because of its high head speed (unless you are very experienced). Then a gain, the nano CPX is supposed to be a bit squirrely, but I think it can be dialed down - and really, I just want to practice hovering with it, not fly 3d.

I like the 130x because it is small and light, and won't necessarily break if you have a mishap. But with this one, I have heard that it is a bit light to fly outside if there is a breeze (and there is always a breeze), great for a gym, but unless you have a mansion of a house you won't be doing too much with it at home.

So I'm working my way up to a 300x - hopefully by the end of spring I'll have enough training. From what I have read, it can be a handful, but can also be ultra stable with the BeastX depending what you do with it. I have done some very basic hovering with it just to check it out, but nothing that would be considered "hover training". The training gear vibrate badly so that's something I'm working on too.

How about you?

I could use some advice on something - is it better to practice on the sim in normal or stunt mode? I am afraid that if I stay in normal mode (i.e. no reverse pitch and 0 throttle when the throttle is all the way down) that I will develop bad habits. And that I should get used to the throttle cut and not going to 'down throttle' when I'm in trouble.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 10:25 AM
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I can do endless discussion and opinions, but probably not much good for reliable advice as I'm a novice with little flying experience and just enough grasp of theory to be dangerous.

Opinion then, there's probably some advantage in a small amount of negative pitch even close to zero collective, to push the heli into the ground slightly as you spool up the rotors to takeoff speed. You can set up a pitch curve to do that in any mode you want, or not. My rl setup would probably have a symmetrical V pitch curve in all modes to prevent confusion on fuzzy-head days. Conventionally I think the function of Idle Up is to vary the motor speed rather than the pitch response, say from 75% in Normal to 100% in IU. One advantage is that you remove some of the momentum from the rotor head during takeoff.

On throttle hold, with FP you can down the collective stick just before a crash and it helps to minimize powered blade strikes by cutting the throttle, but with CP the head speed is fairly constant and all that changes is the blade pitch. Blades will hit the ground at the same speed, under full engine power, regardless of collective position. So the throttle hold switch is a great habit to learn I reckon, and cutting the collective is ineffective for CP.

A 300X has a load of reserve power intended to really throw it around, but if you aren't using all the power and never inverting, there's no particular point having negative pitch or high head speed unless you're flying in heavy winds, you're just reducing the resolution of your collective stick and draining the battery to no useful purpose. These are things that mainly depend on conditions, your preferences and flying style, so my advice is try it and see. .

I like the 300X a lot, with the BeastX it's a nice balance of size, stability and capability, but the 130X is the better size for my back garden and I can just afford to crash it occasionally, while the 300X requires a trip to the park or the field and so I wouldn't get as much time in the air. I estimate about a month before I get a 130X flying, as I'd have to wait for radio parts from HK and I haven't ordered them yet for reasons I won't bore you with

It was a close decision on the nano for me, I prefer it to the mCPX, perfect for indoors, OK for light winds I think and a great CP trainer, but I can only justify the cost of one CP helicopter for now, unless I can find one used for cheap. The mCPX , even brushless, is also inferior imo to the 130X for my purposes, The 130X, like the 300X, has a proper pitched tail rotor with plenty of power and flyable even in moderate winds I understand.
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