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Old Jan 18, 2016, 08:10 PM
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FRUSTRATED over Vector Mode Switch problem

I am EXTREMELY frustrated....I have now spent the better part of two days trying to get my new Vector to work with my already working Tanaris plane profile. The Setup Wizard will not advance past Mode Switches because nothing will get it to see them.

Here is a short list of everything I have tried in various combinations or all combinations.

Equipment: Tanaris X9E using a FrSky L9R Receiver, Luminar Camera, RC832 transmitter Receiver combo all installed in Ranger EX Fixed Wing with Flaps and 2 Channel Ailerons.

I have powered the Vector via its PCU with the L9R being power via the SBUS and via Standard connection. I have also as part of my attempts installed a separate power circuit and BEC to power the Receiver in case the problem was a lack of Volts in the Receiver. None of this worked.

I CANNOT advance past the point in the setup wizard where you choose your Mode/sMode?Gain. I sometimes can see 14 channels in the wizard and sometimes nothing shows up. I have read the entire 80+ page manual at least 3 times, watched hours of video and read hundreds of post.

It is clear there are issues and it is also clear that there is a HUGE of comprehensive and clear instructions for the installation of the Vector for use with different Transmitters.

Some of the things I have done are:

1. Updated all software and firmware. Also did factory resets and then reinstalled again.
2. Successfully installed Vector to the point where I get on screen display with no problem. I followed standard install instructions.
3. Deleted all mixes from my Plane profile so that only Input instructions remained. (Confirmed that standard TX/RCV worked)
4. Restarted the Vector, Receiver, Transmitter and even the software many times to insure a clean attempt.
5. Created a total of 3 different clean plane profiles with no result.
6. Gave the Receiver its own seperate BEC power supply.
7. Tried both Standard and SBUS installs.

I cannot get a good answer on the amount of power flowing into the Vector. It is getting power via the PSU through its harness and it also seems to get power to the Servo connectors via the aircrafts ESC/Thr line.

I am frustrated to the point of anger. I am a long long way from not having the necessary technical or mental abilities to deal with this obviously not ready for the general hobbyist FPV/RTH/OSD setup.

I will offer one severe point of criticism. My Wife is one of the most sought after Technical Writers in the USA. I let her have a look at the documentation for understanding and installing this equipment. She was both appalled, unsurprised and even laughed. It was obvious to her that the manual was written by either a engineer or a programer. She spends half her career fixing the messes made by such people who are sure they can write comprehensible documentation only to cause terrible harm to their companies products and customer satisfaction because of the frustration poor documentation and clear directions cause customers and users. Eagle Tree needs to fix this. It is obvious that A LOT of work and money went into this. It a shame for it to flounder for this easily repaired failure.

Now PLEASE help me figure out what is going on and give me a resolution. I spent well over $300 for this system and its various components, connectors and over 100 hours working through trying to get it working. I deserve better than this for that much investment.

If the problem is that Eagle Tree has not confirmed their product works with some equipment they should make that VERY clear to customers. If they are not QA Testing this then shame on them.

HELP!!
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 08:26 PM
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Bring up the channel outputs screen on the Taranis and cycle through each and every one
of the same inputs that the Vector is asking for. Move Ail, Ele, Rudder, Throttle, Mode, Gain, etc.
Make sure that every input only results in *one* channel moving on the output.
Obviously if no channel moves in response to an input, need to fix that first.
But also, if more than one channel moves, and particularly if the 2nd channel overlaps
with some other function, then you may find that Vector's Rx Analysis wizard has
already picked up, in this case, the mode channel in some earlier step, so it ignores it from that point forward.

As for the manual. Can't disagree more. Yes it's a technical manual, but it's one of the
most comprehensive and easy to understand manuals written for any product of
this complexity. You and your wife may not believe that now, but feel feel free to
check out some of the manuals written for other comparable products, assuming they
have one at all.

Oh, and you mentioned seeing up to 14ch. L9R can only handle 12ch max. Make sure you're not telling the Taranis to send more than 12.
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Bring up the channel outputs screen on the Taranis and cycle through each and every one
of the same inputs that the Vector is asking for. Move Ail, Ele, Rudder, Throttle, Mode, Gain, etc.
Make sure that every input only results in *one* channel moving on the output.
Obviously if no channel moves in response to an input, need to fix that first.
But also, if more than one channel moves, and particularly if the 2nd channel overlaps
with some other function, then you may find that Vector's Rx Analysis wizard has
already picked up, in this case, the mode channel in some earlier step, so it ignores it from that point forward.


As for the manual. Can't disagree more. Yes it's a technical manual, but it's one of the
most comprehensive and easy to understand manuals written for any product of
this complexity. You and your wife may not believe that now, but feel feel free to
check out some of the manuals written for other comparable products, assuming they
have one at all.

Oh, and you mentioned seeing up to 14ch. L9R can only handle 12ch max. Make sure you're not telling the Taranis to send more than 12.

I did that at least 10 times total on 3 different plane templates. All confirmed and responding perfectly both on the Tanaris and the OpenTX Simulator.

Any other ideas?

On the manual all I can tell you is that one of the countries top Tech Writers says it is really really bad and nearly impossible for anyone but an insider to understand.

I have two masters and a Phd in History (19th Cen Mil) I'm not stupid by any means. The manual is ALL over the place and does not do anything to step people through setup with the 4 major Transmitter/ Receiver combos out there. I spent almost 10 years doing Cisco Router installs. I am all over dealing with bad manuals. This one looks far better than it actually is.
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 10:47 PM
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Plug a servo into each physical channel in turn on your L9R and verify the same as above.

This isn't a Vector manual issue. It's a setup or hardware issue on the Taranis or L9R side.
Many people use this combo, and it works fine.

Oh, and what channel #s did you put all the basic inputs on? If I recall, the Rx Wizard generally wants
them all on ch1-8. If you need em on higher channels, can change it manually in the Vector software
under the CPPM/SBUS mapping.
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Last edited by Daemon; Jan 18, 2016 at 10:55 PM.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 06:54 AM
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I did confirm servo function in each location on the L9R and on the Vector I placed the servos 1-6 in their locations with Aux1 being the 2nd Ail just as the manual tells.

I did extensive research before investing in this but I missed all the problems people had with the Wizard recognizing the mode switches. I even tried the repeated toggling (5+ times) of switches that some people who have had trouble reported.

I am probably going to try the X6R my Transmitter came with or order a new X8R as I need the channels before I decide I have a faulty Vector module. Everything on the module seems to work ok.

Except the first time I ran power directly to my Receiver in its on loop through a 10amp BEC and SBUS connecting the Receiver to the Vector module the unit suddenly shut everything down...DIsplay went to snow at least.

The Vector was not hot. It was wired up exactly the way it was before and I can see no reason the SBUS would have sent extra voltage to the Vector unit from the Receiver. The Vector had its power line off the PSU and then the power line from the ESC/Thr coming into the correct server port. I confirmed that setup so that should be fine.

I put the extra BEC to feed the L9R after reading post after post about "Brownouts" on Vector systems and thought maybe the receiver was under powered. One of the FPV guys at my local shop had this same issue and that solved it for him.

So I am close to deciding the system "Vector" is bad. I hope not because I don't know what getting a new one will be like. Fortunately I got it directly from Eagle Tree. My EagleEyes and Pitot came from GetFPV so I hope they are alright if I ever make it far enough to see.

As for the manual we will have to agree to disagree. I think it is a terribly flawed document. The lack of clean "Basic Setup", the lack of detailed full wiring and connection diagram options is ridiculous. The bits and pieces are not nearly enough. As a new user I find it very frustrating. I know for a fact I am not alone in this. Every single guy in my local flying club ,that has one of these, HATES the manual and had to stumble through setting things up for their configurations as well.

I cannot believe Eagle Tree did not take the time to do a video series showing the Vector being installed from beginning to end (Plane installation). This NEEDS to be done.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STUCARIUS View Post
I cannot believe Eagle Tree did not take the time to do a video series showing the Vector being installed from beginning to end (Plane installation). This NEEDS to be done.
Honestly, I prefer a written manual to a video series, as with a manual you can easily look up the appropriate section and skip right to the relevant parts. With a video, you have to listen to some guy talk for several minutes about non-relevant details before finally getting to the part that concerns you. For those who are visual learners (like me), a manual can have photos that directly show the big picture and also all the necessary details. Plus a manual can be printed and taken with you to the field.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 09:59 AM
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The best set-up is the easiest one,hates set-up with many steps in the PC.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Fernandoluis View Post
The best set-up is the easiest one,hates set-up with many steps in the PC.
True, but then it would tend to lack in customization. The Vector is a product that is used on a wide variety of airframes and has to work with a large number of transmitters and receivers while providing a variety of autopilot functions. If you want easy, use something like EzOSD.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 06:08 PM
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I talked to Eagle Tree today and one of the things they suggested might be wrong is that the L9R RX has a known issue with the SBUS. I know nothing about this but if so it would explain much.

My chief concern at this point is power. Even though the manual says the Vector does not power the RX the ET rep told me that it does pass power through from the ESC but does not power the Vector rails.

How can that be? Is all the power for the Vector rails supposed to pass from the RX to the Vector? Otherwise how are the Servos going to operate?

That makes little sense. I also have real concerns about the amount of voltage going to the Vector. I had one shutdown of the unit after installing a Crown 10A BEC to power the RX on its own loop.

If you consider the power from the PSU to the Vector, the ESC line into the Vector, The USB during setup and any thing coming through the SBUS from the separately powered RX, Well....That is a heck of a lot of heat when none of that power is flowing to other devices. I do not know what kind of Capacitors or Resisters the Vector is using but it does get warm, but not hot, to the touch.

In a Standard nonSBUS setup there are not enough inputs to the Vector to bring all nine channels signals from the L9R. Which I have to have as for some reason I have not yet figured out the Ailerons do not like using a single channel on a "Y" connector.

Any idea are appreciated.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 06:13 PM
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Thought you said earlier that you tried using L9R's PWM channels directly without using SBUS?

Guessing there was a miscommunication about the power somewhere.
If the ESC's BEC is plugged into the Vector's servo rail, then it powers
all the servos on it, and then power is passed to Rx servo rail via the PPM/SBUS/Ail wire.
If you don't trust a single servo wire to give enough power to Rx where you may have
more servos, then can just add additional jumpers between the two servo
busses (as mentioned in the manual).

Vector powers its internals (AP and OSD) entirely from the PSU.
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Old Jan 21, 2016, 08:00 AM
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Hello,

Just to be clear about a few things. Please see the following info provided via the support ticket for this issue;

Sent on the 19th from our support department;

As for your power questions; The Vector is powered from the PSU/Current Sensor. The Vector does not use any of the power that is applied to the servo rail. Per the manual;

The Vector does not power your receiver or servos. You will need to power your receiver and servos as you would in a non-Vector model, such as with a stand-alone BEC, a BEC built into your ESC, or a separate
battery pack.

Whatever power is provided to your receiver will be routed through the Vector to your servos. Whatever
power is provided by an ESC’s BEC will be routed through the Vector to your receiver and servos.

You can alternatively use the 5 volt tap from the PSU (if not being used to power a 5 volt camera or video TX) to power your receiver on multirotors. Please see section 3.5.6, “Powering your Receiver on Multirotors" for
additional info.


Sent today from our support department;

The AUX 2 is an output only that must be controlled by one of the existing inputs. There is no way to control the AUX independently from any of the existing inputs. So no, there is no way to use AUX 2 as a gain channel. It can only be used as a temp input, 2nd aileron, 2nd elevator or 2nd rudder.

No, we are not positive there is an SBUS problem with the L9R. We do not have this receiver and are not able to test every receiver available on the market. When you mentioned you were having SBUS issues and you identified that receiver, the first thing that we did was search google for L9R SBUS user reports which led us to the info provided to you previously, pasted again below;

------------------------------------------------------------------
First, it seems there are users reporting difficulties with that RX and the Taranis TX. It seems the first 4 channels are not available in SBUS in some cases, which can cause the exact behavior you are describing. The fact that the Vector is reporting inconsistent channel counts in the SBUS stream, supports that this is likely one of the issues. See the following link;

http://www.frsky-rc.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6745

Also, according to the documentation on the product page (probably also contained in the RXs manual), only certain modes will work with that RX. This may or may not be relevant to your situation. From the product page;

Note: The L9R receiver is not compatible with FrSky V8, D8, and D16 Mode. The LR9 is a non-telemetry receiver and does not support data hub or smart port functions. The Bind and fail safe setting procedures vary from previous X series receivers, please see the instruction manual for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Specifically, users reported the following;

- I have a similar problem binding my L9R with the Taranis 9XD Plus. I need the Ch9, and when I set LR12 and channels 1-8, everything works perfect. BUT! when I change to LR12 and channels 1-9 or up to 12. Channel 1 stop sending signal to the motor. Just that one!

and

- Update! If I bind from the begining as LR12 Ch1-12, the firs 4 channels (TAER) do not work. Channels from 5 to 9 work fine.

and

- Hi, please try to update your Taranis X9D Plus.

How to: http://www.frsky-rc.com/download/view.p ... nis%20Plus

The new firmware for X9D Plus: http://www.frsky-rc.com/download/view.p ... 20v2.0.9.2

and

- It worked! Perfect! Now I have my 12 channeels available. Thanks!


Regards, John
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