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Old Dec 20, 2014, 02:18 PM
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PROFESSOR TRUTH JIMMY ICE
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Post your RG65 paneled sail designs here!

I would like to see some of the designs you creative minds have come up with.... Also I'm getting a boat soon, and the first thing im going to do is experiment with sailmaking, and I'd like to get some ideas on designs to start with.... I'm going to be making a "Gadget", buying material, and getting my hands dirty....

Flat tops, curved lufts, anything cool, fast and functional....

Thanks
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 02:48 PM
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Thomas Armstrong
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
613 Posts
Hi:

I've done some research on sail plans for RG65's, focusing on overall sail shape (not on how to panel or add camber to them). I've taken some publicly available plans, and added my own measurements on sails designed by some others. You can see the data here (links to available plans inside):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1u2...sfA&authuser=0

This data should help you decide what to do in terms of shape. You can see aspect ratios used range from narrow to wide, and that there are some differences in main-to-jib ratio. Also, one designer chose not to decrease sail area for his B and C-rig (strange!).

I would love to use this thread as a place to open up discussion on this subject, as there is little information around... Looks like everyone as his own little secret when it comes to sailmaking...

So on to design considerations:
  1. always keep in mind that some sail layouts are better for each hull.
  2. weather conditions of each venue and the conditions of the event day may affect your selection of sails
  3. the rules say you can bring 3 sets of rigs to each event. They do not say you have to use the same 3 at every event, thou!

So, you can pretty much do what you like, which makes it very difficult to decide on what to do!

One guy around here has like 6 different rigs for his boat, and he chooses which 3 to bring to each event depending on the location/weather. How he chooses is just too much for me, though.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 02:50 PM
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Thomas Armstrong
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
613 Posts
Here I will repeat my thinking about how to decide, which was posted originally here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2261460


I took a practical approach to choosing what kind of smaller rigs I want. Goals:
  1. Have smaller rigs for use when wind is too strong for 2250 sqcm A-rig
  2. Minimize heel (force perpendicular to hull)
  3. Maximize power (force longitudinal to hull)
Yes, pretty obvious and contradicting goals... So I took a look at my current A-Rig and got to think: how do I make it smaller? I simplified the problem by looking at it as a simple 2 parameter/2 outputs problem. Parameters are mast height and foot length, outputs are heel and power forces.

My thinking is:
  • A-rig goal is to maximize power with little concern on heel. So it is as high as it can be, and with an even surface distribution. Hence, Frank Russel A-rig design looks almost perfect for this: just vertical wing, with a curve at the top.
  • Frank Russel designed smaller rigs by just shortening the mast, but keeping sail foot same length as the A-rig. Short mast + same foot = smaller sail area than A-rig. Radically smaller sail area!
  • Chris Jackson took another approach: he shortened the mast but kept same sail area. Short mast + long foot = same sail area than A-rig. Radically longer foot length!
  • Both approaches tackle the heel problem: in both cases CE is lower than before. But there are differences. Comparing same mast length, Frank's design has low power/low heel, Chris's has high power/high heel.

In my opinion these two designs are too extreme: one keeps foot length fixed; the other keeps sail area fixed. Somewhere in between there should be an optimum.

Then I took a look at what winners are using: Pedro Stier in Brazil, Andres Lioi here in Chile. Both are using rigs that look in between solutions. Their designs use a longer foot (but not too long), and shorten mast so that sail area is reduced, but not that much (around 13% from A to B and from B to C-rigs).

So I took these ideas and started building my C-rig, similar to what Andrés uses (I sail same places as he does )

Hopes this rationale makes sense and helps others.

Camber and building details? That's another story altogether! This was only about overall sail shape...
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 10:17 PM
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PROFESSOR TRUTH JIMMY ICE
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Good to get a discussion started... Awesome
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Old Dec 21, 2014, 12:21 AM
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@Akura2:
I have seen a few panelled sails for RG65.

You mention "Gadget" - presumably this is the "Claudio Gadget" which has the potential when correctly used to assist in the building of panelled sails. A few playing cards are also useful as accurate wedges for the tool.

Thus far, I have not bothered with panelled sails for my RG size boats. My reasons:
1) For the tall and narrow A Rigs (such as the Frank Russell plans with mainsail foot length 205 mm) the width of the sail means there is little gain from the shaping. A lower aspect sail with a long foot might gain a bit from one seam a third up the height.
2) Sail flexibility - adding seams means you lose flexibility in the sail. Particularly with lightweight sails (think 30 micron Mylar) the one piece sail is much more sensitive in light / drifter conditions.
3) Build time - constructing panelled sails is a pain in the butt in my opinion, takes so long compared to a single panel sail.... loss of valuable sailing time (grin)

Just my two bits worth.... ;-)
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Old Dec 21, 2014, 05:56 PM
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PROFESSOR TRUTH JIMMY ICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpenguin View Post
@Akura2:
I have seen a few panelled sails for RG65.

You mention "Gadget" - presumably this is the "Claudio Gadget" yes... Exactlywhich has the potential when correctly used to assist in the building of panelled sails. A few playing cards are also useful as accurate wedges for the tool.

Thus far, I have not bothered with panelled sails for my RG size boats. My reasons:
1) For the tall and narrow A Rigs (such as the Frank Russell plans with mainsail foot length 205 mm) the width of the sail means there is little gain from the shaping. A lower aspect sail with a long foot might gain a bit from one seam a third up the height.
2) Sail flexibility - adding seams means you lose flexibility in the sail. Particularly with lightweight sails (think 30 micron Mylar) the one piece sail is much more sensitive in light / drifter conditions.
3) Build time - constructing panelled sails is a pain in the butt in my opinion, takes so long compared to a single panel sail.... loss of valuable sailing time (grin)funny...

Just my two bits worth.... ;-)
Very interesting take... Well I plan on trying different sail types and testing the efficacy for my uses.... I also found a site that sells sailmaking materials and equipment that I hadn't seen on any of the other forums....

http://www.radiosailingshop.com.au/i...index&cPath=15

They sell precut battens, grommets, numbers and letters, different weight Mylar.... All the things I would need to really make a mess of this... Lol
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Old Dec 21, 2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akura2 View Post
Very interesting take... Well I plan on trying different sail types and testing the efficacy for my uses.... I also found a site that sells sailmaking materials and equipment that I hadn't seen on any of the other forums....

http://www.radiosailingshop.com.au/i...index&cPath=15

They sell precut battens, grommets, numbers and letters, different weight Mylar.... All the things I would need to really make a mess of this... Lol
@Akura2:

I have bought from Radio Sailing Shop a couple of times, they have a good range of really great stuff for making your own sails...

Bits that I bought included (ignore the prices, they are a couple of years old and may not be current; this is just a paste from the invoice):
10 ea. Poly501 - Poly/Mylar Film 50 Micron x 610 mm wide per metre $67.00
1 ea. 78 Small Eyelets N/Plate Brass 1.5mm ID 3.5mm Flange 100 pack $5.95
1 ea. 79 - Small Washers, N/P Brass, 2.2 mm ID, 4.8 mm OD 100 Pack $4.95
1 ea. 90 Small Eyelet Punch $9.75
1 ea. TM-12 Clear Mylar Tape 12mm Wide for leech & luff reinforcement $20.65
1 ea. 80 Med. Eyelets N/P Brass 3.2mm ID 5.5mm Flange 100 Pack $9.60
1 ea. 81 Med.Washers N/P Brass 3.9mm ID, 7.5mm OD 100 Pack $4.95
1 ea. 91 Medium Eyelet Punch $9.75
1 ea. DST-06 - 6mm Double Sided Sailmakers Tape for Seams - 50 metres $7.90

I found the 50 micron Mylar great for RG sails. The 35 micron stuff is really flexible and would be hard to work with.

The tiny eyelets and washers are fiddly but they make a great job of the mainsail luff attachment points. The larger ones are for the corners.

The 12mm Mylar tape is INCREDIBLY sticky, be very careful when applying it that you do not stretch it or the sail will pucker

The 6mm double sided tape is probably the most useful item I have ever bought, just great for a wide range of jobs. When applied it is really thin and just about invisible. Also available in 9mm but this width is not needed in these small sails.

Other bits you will need (also available from Radio Sailing Shop):
Luff tape - this is fluoro orange, it comes in lots of colours) TI-OR20 Orange Luff Tape Suitable for headsails, 20metre x 18mm- expensive but will take while for you to do 20 metres of jib luffs on an RG! This has no adhesive, stick it on with double sided tape.

Corner fingers (this is also available in a range of colours) SBFO - Fluoro Orange Sticky Back Self Adhesive Dacron 1370x250mm - this much will do a lot of corner fingers!

(I am not connected with this business. Just a happy customer.)

Hope this helps...
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Old Dec 21, 2014, 07:49 PM
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PROFESSOR TRUTH JIMMY ICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpenguin View Post
@Akura2:
Hope this helps...
Very much!
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